Offer from someone trying to help out with my set
RobE
Posts: 1,160 ✭✭
Is this person serious with this proposition? I'm always willing to listen to offers for Raw examples,folks who plan to send cards in for me or people who want to buy or sell.However,this person has sent me the funniest offer that is so far out of touch with market reality I don't even know wether to take it seriously or not and have no idea how to respond but I tried to be as nice as possible when doing so.
Guess this is what I deserve for building a 1980 Topps baseball set.
Rob, I think that I can complete your set. I went through your listing and came up with the following: Cards Needed: 57 cards PSA 8 (Upgrade): 73 cards I won't list out the numbers because I had simply printed out the listing from the PSA website that you maintain in regards to your set, so we know what cards we are talking about. The good news is that when I bought the set in 1980, I have never taken them out of the box, but beyond that, these cards are pristine, very sharp, perfect corners.
Here is what I am proposing. I am going to remove the following card numbers from the set: 1, 4, 40, 100, 160, 206, 210, 230, 235, 265, 270, 393, 406, 450, 482, 500, 540, 580, 590, 600, 650, 700, 720. These are the "high dollar" cards that I am going to send in to get graded. I feel very strongly that the majority of these are 10's (including the Henderson). I will send you the remainder of the cards (703 cards).
The following would be the discounted fee schedule: for the 57 cards that are needed, we could be talking a fair value of $8 each (vs. $15 to $50). For the upgrades, we would be talking about $10 (vs. $15 to $50) per card. Hypothetically then the upgrades would total to $456 plus $10 per any applicable cards that are used for your collection (PSA 9 and 10). Assuming that you upgrade 1/3 of the 73 PSA's to 9's and 10's (althought I know it will more than likely be all 73), that would be an additional $243. Therefore, I am proposing to send you the set, less the cards that I had noted earlier, for a fee of $650. Let me know how you would like to proceed. I will send you the cards first to let you inspect them and make sure they are up to your standards before you make payment. I feel this to be a win win situation. On one hand you get to complete your set. On the other hand, I have the knowledge as a collector that it was my set that helped to complete PSA's all-time best set. I will need your mailing address to send these out right away. Do we have a deal? Please advise. Thanks, Mark
My reply:
Mark,I find it extremely difficult to take this seriously.I could be wrong but it appears that what you are interested in doing is - selling me a raw set, minus the "high dollar" cards for $650?
First of all,a raw complete set in respectable condition books for $120 and sells around $50 to $90.
Second,I have dealt with the smallest & biggest submitters to PSA for 1980 and other years.PSA just doesn't issue 10s to anything or anyone.If you really feel confident in your predictions for what the grades these cards you have will turn out to be then I suggest you send them to PSA and I'll be happy to pay the respected prices for each grade.
Good luck and let me know how you make out!
Regards,Robert
Guess this is what I deserve for building a 1980 Topps baseball set.
Rob, I think that I can complete your set. I went through your listing and came up with the following: Cards Needed: 57 cards PSA 8 (Upgrade): 73 cards I won't list out the numbers because I had simply printed out the listing from the PSA website that you maintain in regards to your set, so we know what cards we are talking about. The good news is that when I bought the set in 1980, I have never taken them out of the box, but beyond that, these cards are pristine, very sharp, perfect corners.
Here is what I am proposing. I am going to remove the following card numbers from the set: 1, 4, 40, 100, 160, 206, 210, 230, 235, 265, 270, 393, 406, 450, 482, 500, 540, 580, 590, 600, 650, 700, 720. These are the "high dollar" cards that I am going to send in to get graded. I feel very strongly that the majority of these are 10's (including the Henderson). I will send you the remainder of the cards (703 cards).
The following would be the discounted fee schedule: for the 57 cards that are needed, we could be talking a fair value of $8 each (vs. $15 to $50). For the upgrades, we would be talking about $10 (vs. $15 to $50) per card. Hypothetically then the upgrades would total to $456 plus $10 per any applicable cards that are used for your collection (PSA 9 and 10). Assuming that you upgrade 1/3 of the 73 PSA's to 9's and 10's (althought I know it will more than likely be all 73), that would be an additional $243. Therefore, I am proposing to send you the set, less the cards that I had noted earlier, for a fee of $650. Let me know how you would like to proceed. I will send you the cards first to let you inspect them and make sure they are up to your standards before you make payment. I feel this to be a win win situation. On one hand you get to complete your set. On the other hand, I have the knowledge as a collector that it was my set that helped to complete PSA's all-time best set. I will need your mailing address to send these out right away. Do we have a deal? Please advise. Thanks, Mark
My reply:
Mark,I find it extremely difficult to take this seriously.I could be wrong but it appears that what you are interested in doing is - selling me a raw set, minus the "high dollar" cards for $650?
First of all,a raw complete set in respectable condition books for $120 and sells around $50 to $90.
Second,I have dealt with the smallest & biggest submitters to PSA for 1980 and other years.PSA just doesn't issue 10s to anything or anyone.If you really feel confident in your predictions for what the grades these cards you have will turn out to be then I suggest you send them to PSA and I'll be happy to pay the respected prices for each grade.
Good luck and let me know how you make out!
Regards,Robert
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Comments
JOe
A very professional reply to his offer . It could of been much more harsh. The problem is as many of us know everyone(who is not as familar with grading) thinks all their raw stuff is 10's. It usually takes a submission for them to realize most of their 10 gem mint stuff is PSA 7 PSA 8OC or worse
I have some 1987 Topps sets still in the original boxes, never been touched. I wonder how many 10's are in there...
Robert
Any high grade OPC Jim Palmer
High grade Redskins (pre 1980)
Doesn't gator deal with 80, or is it 81? he would know how hard it is to pull 9's and 10's from these years.
I'm so confused I don't know what to say for I'm still trying to figure it out.
Boy I guess I shouldnt have gave you those commons if thier worth 10-15
dollars raw.
Though not to laugh to hard I'd take him up on the offer to view the cards
for anything is possible. It could be a freak deal though not likely. You just never no they could have been pulled from a razor
case and if they haven't been touched who knows.
By the way, if Mark is interested, I have a whole set of high grade 1980 Topps that I'll be happy to sell him for $650. I'll even throw in all the superstar cards!
E.G. Tell him you will offer him $x for PSA 8, $y for PSA 9, and $z for PSA 10 -- and that you will commit to those prices for the cards you need.
MS
I agree and I'm not saying there is a shortage of unopened or mint cards from 80 but
if someone told me they would send me the set first to check them out who's to lose
not you for you will get to see them before the purchase. I've seen a couple of raw
sets in my day that have blown up the pops with 10's. Also if you have the cards in
hand you can counter with another offer.
I guess you have to have the eye to be able to make the judgement call. But your
talking a buck a piece on the cards and a ten can turn into 50 and even more in some
team set collectors. So I cant see where it'd hurt to take a look at them. For 20 tens
and you have your cash back and then some. Case being are they mint.
Now on the other hand, if Marc or Matt offered for me to inspect a lot of cards that would be an offer I'd consider taking seriously.
Otherwise that $35 or for $20 more for past stunts could have paid for a PSA 10 common which I'd much rather obtain.
On another note I am very reluctant in my picks because Steve Creason sent as a throw in a Winfield EX 5 which is very comparable to 8's and even up to 10s.It has the usual print dots that particular card has which I've seen on a handfull of actual 9s but Steve says it has a Wrinkle on it.I've been looking at this card for 6 months where he says on the back of it and I can't see the freakin thing.I do see what appears to be a very teeny tiny surface wrinkle on the top right but you have to look under a good light and magnifier in order to see it.The corners and centering is just as good as a 9 and I have a few 9s that don't look as good.Also this card blows away quite a few 8s.
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Also I must say that Steve Creason had nailed quite a few 10s from this year and knows what he was looking for in a card.He was always dead on and predicted his grades accurately pretty much 95% of the time.He also knew this was a problematic card and was right about it too.
I have tons of thsese cards and still can't get it right.But then again my last submission I predicted 11 7s the rest 8s and no 9s.I wound up with 13 9s one 7,2 MC and the rest 8s.I was happy and upgraded many 8s since.
Still skeptical
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I here ya I'm just a gamblin man and return shipping to me is just part of the game.
As for your winfield 5 I have a few psa 7's that I have no explanation for usually due
to 2 specks of snow only if you use the loupe and sometimes what I have found if
you pull them from wax its usually gum dust. I've broke some holders only to have
that be the cause. My stupidity 6 bucks for not cleaning my card wow!!!
On the other hand you'll get there and I'm pullin for ya!!!!!!!!!!
For I'm about ready to go into my final phase on the 81's I'm back into rehashing through
all my 5000 counts. Finding quite a few to fill the gaps. Yet I must say this set is really
getting to be work and not pleasure!!!!!!!!!
Nice 5 I'll take all them at a buck a peice. I don't understand that wrinkle
or no wrinkle.
It's the least I could do for your past generosity.
Address please!
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I figured you could use that Winfield as an example of what can go wrong even with high quality cards. Good to see you keep it handy.
Steve
tim
Ironic, wait and see as for 81's goooooooooooooood luck for your going to find some cards alot tougher than vintage trust me. HHHHHHHHHHHHHMMMMMMMMMMMM Try a lynn in a 9 good luck bust open 2000 dolla no holla.
ps that means burn 2k on unopened to find nothing.
If you donate the money, you will at least get a tax donation. If you donate to the right charity, maybe they will put your names on something. Why can't you just compete to see who can donate the most money? Send your money to feed someone in a third world country with nothing to eat. Which is more important: Having PSA arbitrarily assign grades to your overproduced cards or saving someones life?
In building my 75 set - along with both pursuits of the 72 set - I'd done occasional eBay business with Mark Wingard (eBay ID - jjtmmw@aol.com). When my 75 set registry showed I was down to five cards, I got an e-mail from Mark letting me know he was able to find two of them which had a legit shot at PSA8s. He said he’d submit them and e-mail me with how they turned out and he’d set them aside for me – and – sell them to me at a very fair price. A few weeks go by. . .one came back an 8 NQ and the other a 9PD. Even though I really can’t use the 9PD, I felt great buying both cards. Just the fact that I had a dealer/collector out there who really cared about helping me out made me feel really good. He knew he could have charged me a lot more – and he knew I’d have paid it. Because when you get down to those last cards, you become a lot less concerned with price.
So. . .I have to say when you get close to finishing your set and people offer to “help”, not all of them turn out like RobE’s experience. And most definitely, you should bid on Mark’s eBay auctions – a great dealer and truly class act!
Mike
Mike
I may miss the real beauty, but I didn't miss the beautiful bloodbath you took on the original mcastaldi 1972 PSA 8 chase. 1980 & 1981 graded Topps sets will be a gruesome sequel!
Good luck with your 72 Topps set. When you get to the tougher cards, let me know. I'll be glad to lend you a hand.
Mike
O.K. I will bite. How did you make out on the 1972 set round 1? Rough estimate is fine.
Mike
This is what happened: I was emailed an offer to help me with my 61 set. The offerer sent scans of 6 raw cards, (nice scans). 4 cards were high #'s, the smr at the time was $50.00 in an 8. The other 2 were #'s in the 400's, smr was $22-23.00 in an 8. I paid this person $65.00 for the 6 raw cards.
I send the cards in on a 25 card submission, $10.00 a card. The 6 cards pull 3 8's(2hi#'s 1 #450) and 3 7's. I trade one 8 and one 7 to Buckwheat. I trade one of the other hi #'s, an 8 to Alan (ACOWA). 4-5 months later I receive a letter from the person I bought the cards from. He stated his pc crashed and he wanted his graded cards. I was totally taken off guard by his demand, not knowing what he was talking about.
6 months later I start selling cards from the set that I've upgraded. This person sends me an email calling me eveything from a liar to a crook. His final quote was " I bet your Mother didn't even die last year". He said I was selling his cards on ebay. Wrong!! I'll backtrack for some clarity. After he sent me the cards and I in turn sent them in for grading, my Mom had a stroke. My Mom passed away Feb. 28, 02.
This guy emailed me once a week asking if I had received the grades for the cards. I explained my situation and that I wasn't very interested in getting the cards back, I had many other things going on in my life more important...
A few months later, this person emails me with a threat. "I'm coming east in a month or so and want my cards". I laugh...he never shows, tell me I'm suprised.
I still have one of each card he sent me (not the exact card) one hi # 8, one hi# 7 and one 400# in a 7. If he hadn't been such a jerk I would have tried to work something out with him. BTW all 6 cards are commons.
WHAT SHOULD I DO???? WHAT WOULD ANY OF YOU DO???
mxer
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However,I didn't build this set with the thought of trying to strike it rich nor did I expect to.I did it for the fun,the friends I've made with it and the learning experience in building a PSA graded set.Several times I thought about letting it go but now only being 57 cards short from complete I figure to hang on and finish what I started before a selling decision is made if one ever is.As well, there are plenty of folks who visit the set and chuck emails either looking for something,maybe to offer something (like this Mark guy did) or to simply appreciate it's existence.
On my part there is no regrets for putting the set togethor despite what a guy thinks that builds any other set.Nomatter what anybody thinks I am not hurt by the points made and appreciate the view on the matter which I've often joked about how crazy it is too.But it's just crazy fun and a 1980 Topps set is certainly no threat to society and neither is my insanity for picking this as my first to give a shot.
Now the point of this topic was to just share one of the comical emails I received from someone interested in helping,yes.And I did realize that it was going to open up a door for criticism which I don't mind when it's constuctive or even harsh.
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Unfortunately, I do not think any collectors believes that the Set Registry Growth rate will maintain its current pace. There are still NUMEROUS sets from pre-1970 where there are less than two dozen people currently making serious attempts at building the sets in graded form, Near Mint or better.
If there is a day in five years that there are "hundreds of people" making each set, like the 1980 Topps set, I will retire a rich man. By that day, five years from now, my 1955 Bowman set will probably be worth millions.
Uhh, it seems that the deal was closed with that guy the minute he cashed your check.(???) Why exactly did he want the cards back? Did he think YOU were paying HIM for the privilege of sending HIS cards in? Just checking to make sure I'm not missing anything.
I don't see how someone is going to get $4,000 or more for a 1980 Topps set. That's just the grading fees alone . These morons are ripping through unopened cases which probably drives the actual cost much higher. Call me crazy, but there are better uses of money than having PSA annoint a 5 cent common with a grade.
I think Rob is very aware of the current market for 1980 PSA cards and he often picks up 8s at below grading fees because others were expecting 9s or 10s as you alluded to. I see nothing wrong with putting together this set and I am pleased to say that some of the cards in it are from my submissions. Rob has been nothing but pleasant to deal with in the past and he is currently helping me track down a 1980 Ryan in high grade. I know that not all 8s and 9s are created equal and i therefore deferred to Rob to find me a nice one which he has graciously accepted. When this set is completed I believe it will rate up there with some of the better set building accomplishments out there. It will obviously not have the value of Marc's 55 Bowman set, but that does not take anything away from the accomplishment. I think these cards with the blue backs are a great examle of what I wish collecting still was today. No inserts aside from a few highlight cards that have always been there and I believe this or 1981 were the last year of the great team cards.
As has been said before, let people collect what they want. Just because you may not see the point does not mean you need to rip another. In a sense, we are all rather foolish to have a third party encase our little pieces of cardboard at $5-$50 per.
54 Red Hearts
and now 64 Stand ups
It's not as bad as you make it sound either.Sure,there are better sets to invest time and money into but that is not why I did it.
Two key reasons this set is put togethor.1) It's the first run of cards I ever put togethor on my own without my father,who helped me with my 75 to 79 adventures and the memories of that period of time as a kid.For example,it was the first time my father coached our baseball team and from 80 to 83 we lost 4 games.We had a little dynasty going.Then in 84 I moved up to another league where we lost every single game and the coach quit.My father was out of coaching,took over the team and we came back all the way from last place and won the champoinship.It just so happens that in 1980 is where things started independently for me as a collector and I was given a partial vending case for working for free at the refreshment stands when the season ended.
Sure it is meaningless to you and everyone else but to me all that nonsense is priceless and these cards capture that period in my life just well for me.
Again,I really appreciate your blunt point and it's well taken but keep in mind this set was built for the experience and the memories.
MS- I hope you do retire with 7 figures in the bank + interest with all your efforts and that set you choose to keep hidden.
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It's perfectly sane if someone who has plenty of food on the table decides he wants to collect something that he enjoys. More power to him!
<< <i>It's crazy if someone is tying up their kids college fund in a graded 80 Topps set (or heck, any set from the '80s - or for that matter, baseball cards period).
It's perfectly sane if someone who has plenty of food on the table decides he wants to collect something that he enjoys. More power to him! >>
No kids at this point for pre school let alone college.On and off for 17 years with the same girl and if we were going to have kids they'd be grown up by now.
Also,there is plenty of food around here for this Italian and it's not only on the table.
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Mike
You have the picture correct! I don't have a clue what someone like this guy is thinking. He's like a card collector stalker.
Check out the SGC registry for 61 topps. I cracked every card I have on the site, I only have the flips from the holders. I thought it would be a joke to add to SGC. This guy has gone so far as to shadow my set card for card. I don't know how someone can add a ficticious set to the SGC registry, this guy did it. My set is #1 with about 4% complete. He is # 4 with the same gpa but not one card listed in the set.
I'm putting many upgraded cards on ebay Sunday, also the one's he thinks he owns. I will prepare for death threats...no joke!
John/mxer
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Joe