1886 morgan vam?

Travis

I have a morgan with a spike coming out of her neck that looks like a die clash of the wing on the reverse. also the reverse has two parallel lines coming down from the n in in god we trust. Does anyone know if this is a vam?

Blackhawk

I believe that what you have is an example of a die clash.

Dog97

What you see out of the neck is the top of the eagles left wing, about midpoint.
I'm not sure what that is sticking out of the right wing. It doesn't match any of the obv design elements & I'm not aware of any vams with a gouge like that as a diagnostic.

Gilbert

The "parallel lines" from the eagle's right wing to "IN" of IGWT is a double clash mark of lady Liberty's neck. Both the obverse clash from the neck (wing as Dog97 pointed out) and the reverse clash are relatively common among Morgan dollars. I guess the "feeder" missed many a planchet in those days.

BTW, each known die marraige is assigned a VAM number, so every Morgan dollar has a VAM number, unless it is a newly discovered die pair. Usually, you would need more than clash marks to properly attribute it.

Dog97

Gilbert for the rev lines over the wing to be neck lines it would have to be the part of the neck directly above the first 8 in date. This would call for the die to be rotated approx 85 degrees when the second clash occured.
That is entirely possible.
Could it be one of the VAM 1 series? Even L VanAllen doesn't say so the 1 A & B are probably clashes or tooling marks and the new VAM 1C is a multiple clash, the 3+2 variety.

Travis

Thanks for the input guys! Where would the best place to get a vam book be? Ebay?

Gilbert

Dog97, my buddy

You are so insightful (as if the whole forum doesn't know)

The 1886 VAM 1C is described (in updated literature) pretty much as you mention:

"III2-1 / C3a ( 3 + 2 Clashed Reverse) Date set at left within normal position; Unusual offset of reverse sideways vee clash marks next to top of right wreath. Top set of sideways vee shows three closely grouped clash marks while lower group shows two with a fairly wide separation. These clash marks appear on very early PL die state coins, so possibly die clashes occurred during the die setup in the press."

Also, I must amend my earlier description to state that the "vee" (neck) clash on the reverse USUALLY goes from the wing to the "N" of IN GWT, not the "I".

Gilbert

Travis,

If you inspect the area between the eagle's left wing and the right side of the wreath, you will probably discover there are 3 clash marks from the back of lady Liberty's cap, hence the designation 3 + 2. The 2 are the two clashes over the right wing to IN. If so, your coin is most likely VAM 1C, as my illustrious colleague pointed out.

Dog97

Hey thanks for the good words Gilbert but I still refer to you as the Vam Man. I'm just a Morgan collector and I don't have enough patience to properly attribute the microscopic diagnostics that a Vammer needs.
If it is indeed 1C Travis has a good one, #29 on the Hot 50 list, and should click on www.vamlink.com & contact the SSDC.

Travis

If it is a vam 1c where should I send it to get it properly attributed? it is in a ngc ms 63 slab right now.

Travis

ttt

Travis

ttt

SDCollector

Travis,

I bought my VAM book at Jakes. I've had good experience with Michael (I think he's the owner). The price for the VAM book was around $65 which was the lowest I could find. Believe it or not I didn't find any on ebay.

TWODOGS

<< <i>If it is a vam 1c where should I send it to get it properly attributed? it is in a ngc ms 63 slab right now. >>

Only ANACS or SEGS will attribute it. PCGS and NGC only attribute a very few. TOP 100's or HOT 50'S.

Dog97

ANACS will not attribute it. They only verify the vam number YOU provide them. If you give them the wrong # then no attribution, no refund. I don't recommend SEGS. Nor PCGS & NGC. The link in my last post is the only place for proper attribution.