Would You be More Likely to Collect Patterns if...

RKKay

There were a pattern registry?

LucyBop

no, only if you sell them to me very cheaply!

wondercoin

keep it sacred Rick

tradedollarnut

I am quite certain that would be the case for many people. The only problem that I see is how would you break it into logical partitions? By denomination? By year? By design?

I think I'm going to do a Gobrecht set, most of which are relegated to the patterns. It'd be neat to see a full blown Gobrecht registry set - each date & type w/ all star combinations, metals and edges. I'm certain that others would like to see something similar - take Mitch and his nickels for instance....

barberlover

Rick, The main reason i never got into patterns before was because it seamed like collecting medals since they don't have legal tender status. That is of course a silly reason to me today, but i think the legal tender staus issue is the main reason that untill recently patterns were cheap [they sure aren't cheap anymore!] Les

wondercoin

TDN: I really would not personally like to see the patterns in the Registry. I really do enjoy collecting something that is not subject to a competition. Obviously, commercializing the patterns might have its advantages to dealers though. If it happens, it happens, but, I hope it doesn't for a long time to come.

Wondercoin

RKKay

Les, I've heard that before about patterns. I love them anyway.
Mitch, patterns will always be sacred to me, but I've heard rumors and had to ask.
TDN, that would be an absolutely spectacular set, as is Mitch's set.
Lucy, my patterns will always be available at a cheap level for you.

EVillageProwler

TDN,

You're crazy if you want to do a Gob set... You should have decided on this *before* the Rudolph coins crossed the block. There were quite a few high R.7 specimens that you missed!

EVP

tradedollarnut

Mitch: I guess I view the Registry as a means to share whatever series I collect with others much more than as a competition. Currently, that ability to share is not possible with many spectacular pattern series. Who wouldn't love to see a set of Morgan halves, of Amazonian designs, or of Liberty by the Seashore dollars? The benefit to all by the opportunity to see fantastic collections far outweighs any concern regarding the dark side of competition......

wondercoin

TDN: I hear you. Of course, folks can still see and enjoy these coins. Rick just had a very nice display of patterns at Long Beach on the NGC table.

Wondercoin

RKKay

Thanks, Mitch. I'm adding to that set as we speak (or type, whichever the case may be). I agree that the best part of these coins is to share and educate as to their historical value.

tradedollarnut

I think it would be very difficult for CU to state what is or is not a valid set beyond a few traditional areas, such as the Gobrechts or the Amazonians. I would really like to see a "free design" option to encompass any pattern set that a person wants to do. Now that would be cool!

wondercoin

I've built a fabulous collection of silver Wash quarters, among other things. But, all those collections are "controllable" and there is a limit to their value and worth. There is only so much trouble I can get myself in with those coins The patterns, on the other hand, are a "series" that can become uncontrollable to a diehard collector. For nearly everyone, the money would run out long before the buying binges die down. Even the Registry couldn't handle this one! It would be like legalizing heroin in a freaky sense



Rick - can you relate? This is a scary thread!

Wondercoin

RKKay

A sampling:

J1586


J1598

J1699

Can I relate? My collection rotates on a regular basis as a result of my running out of money every month.

wondercoin

"Can I relate? My collection rotates on a regular basis as a result of my running out of money every month. "

Yes, this is clearly no joke. But, just a reminder, the coins are not "your collection" anymore. They are your inventory and you are a dealer. Repeat: You are a dealer. You are a dealer.



Wondercoin

RKKay

Does anyone know a good hypnotist??

wondercoin

"Does anyone know a good hypnotist?? "

RegistryCoin

I was once told that a top 144 pc commem. set would take all available funds. That person was right, by the way.
I just can't imagine parameters for a reg. pattern set. Mind boggling!

RKKay

What about a set of pattern Liberty nickels or pattern Flying Eagles?? Yes, that would be super expensive, but not beyond the means of the people on the boards who talk about buying $50k or $100k coins or even for those who put together entire sets of various denominations in super high grades. . A nice Lib Nickel pattern set, not the finest, though, would probably run $150k to $200k. It is theoretically possible, just in an entirely different league as far as financial outlay is concerned.

foodude

Whether or not there is a registry slot (and I had the necessary funds) has no impact on my approach to patterns. I do not own any, and always thought about them as a very rarified area of the hobby. I do hope to some buy have a few I my collection. Two of the reasons that I do own any is that they tend to be expensive (several thousand and up), and I have no idea of what is a reasonable cost, and yes I have all pattern books (in fact most numismatic library contains over 100 books, perhaps over 200, I have not counted them in years).

RKKay

fudude, patterns ARE very difficult to value, and doing so comes down to knowing the current market direction and past auction records and extrapolating. There are some patterns in the $800 to $2000 range, but they are mostly some of the more common IHC and FE patterns, as well as a few of the Standard Silvers and coronet type such as the 3cn obverse. If you ever have questions about value, PM me, and I'll give you the information I have at my disposal.

oreville

I tried to limit myself to pattern dimes pieces. Mostly R-7 and PR65 and better to make it less possible to spend all my money. Oh sure, found 6 or 7 of them!! No problem!! :-(

Of course, that was just another pipe dream to control myself.

Why?

Hmmm.... then I had to have an R-7 $5, $10 and $20 aluminum proofs from the 1870's. Oh yeah, they were found for pennies on the dollar. :-(

Then on top of it had to have not one but two 1856 FE cents, still technically a pattern. But weren't those made into legal tender??????

Oh of course, I have been successful staying away from 3c, 5c, 25c, 50c and $1 patterns. Oh so what good is that when you can bury yourself on all the others?????????????

I guess I have to complain!!!

At least I was successful in slowing myself down only because the supplies seem to have dried up a bit.

barberlover

Rkkay, I don't ask for much, not really!

All i want for Christmas is a gem set of an 1891 Barber dime, quarter, and half.

There, thats only 3 coins!!! It shouln't be to expensive should it ?

RKKay

Les, that's not much to ask for. I'm sure you could pick those babies up really cheap.

Lakesammman

There are some patterns in the $800 to $2000 range, but they are mostly some of the more common IHC and FE patterns

Picked up this cheap, common pattern at the recent LB show - still like it, though......

RKKay

Wow, Tim! That is awesome!! That's the nicest pattern I've ever seen!!! Who sold you that?

sinin1

No - a registry set would not entice me one bit.



What I would really like is a coffee table / art book -> no big long boring text just color pictures and maybe the JUDD number


I wouldn't even care what order they were in, or maybe even random.


There could be 5 or 10 or 20 coins on a page - I wouldn't care.



I would be willing to pay in the $30-40 range for this book.




With all of the electronic media around, this is a project that could be done - with getting the release forms and such -




The compiler of pictures would not even have to see the coins, just get pictures.




If a book like that were available, I would be more tempted to spend big bucks on coins I deemed Beautiful!

MoneyLA

Ive talked to Rick about collecting patterns and decided the way for me to do it would be to collect "quarters." Now that this has been decided, I only have to find a way to save enough box tops, cents off coupons, stock dividends, paychecks, tax refunds, inheritance proceeds, etc to make my first purchase!! cheers, alan mendelson

oreville

MoneyLA: Even if you limit yourself to quarter patterns, there is an awfully big, exciting, and bottomless/endless world of pattern quarteres to pick from.

RKKay

That's fine, Alan. Any of those methods of payment will be fine.

wondercoin

Oreville is absolutely correct. Unless your last name is Gates, or something like that, it is very adviseable to set limitations on a pattern collection right from the outset (AND STICK TO IT) By way of example, on my pattern nickel collection, I chose to NOT collect pattern half dimes -period. Of course, if I had tons of cash, I would like pattern half dimes. But, I can also rationalize that a pattern "half dime" is not a pattern "nickel", it is a pattern "half dime". So, I'm dealing with it I also decided from the beginning to avoid virtually anything under R7, which is not the finest known grade. I simply wanted to avoid from the outset situations where I bought a PR63 and the following month a PR64 came up and was offered to me (when say finest known grade is PR65). I did not want to deal with dups except if I obtained one and a higher graded coin was thereafter graded (doesn't happen that much with coins where the total mintage is 12). There were many other "rules" I set as well.

Bottom line is to select a specific collection from the start that is "doable" based upon your finances and resources. If anyone is seriously interested in pursuing patterns, feel free to PM me to discuss the project.

Wondercoin

RKKay

Mitch is right. It is tough to stick to one specific area of patterns when there are so many spectacular patterns that come around. I've been guilty of it, as have many of my clients.

BTW Mitch, since you are focusing on pattern nickels and large cents, can I buy back that J1098, pattern quarter?

Excuse the shameless plug, but, for the finest R7 and R8 patterns, check my website at www.patterncoins.com I've helped several board members in assembling what will soon be among the top Registry sets.

scher

i just bought last week my very first pattern..pretty cool coin too..its a 3 cent nickel 1865 PR67DCAM J-410..ive been told its pretty rare.. i forgot just how rare..but its a great looking coin
bruce scher

RKKay

Congrats on your purchase, Bruce. That was a spectacular coin.

wondercoin

"BTW Mitch, since you are focusing on pattern nickels and large cents, can I buy back that J1098, pattern quarter?"

Rick: You know my aluminum pattern Princess quarter is stll hanging with my aluminum Indian cent of the same year. Admittedly, an unorthodox marriage of sorts, but, I don't intend to break them up - at least until we see if "kids" come in the picture, perhaps a 2 cent or 3 cent piece (even a tiny dime) to add to that family? Yes, I know it is almost time to take me away. Where is that hypnotist is yours?



Wondercoin

boiler78

Mitch spoken like a true pattern collector! Sounds like your strict pattern limits are a lot like mine. I am focusing on two specific pattern areas and anything really cool that comes along. If Rick gets your aluminum quarter can I buy the aluminum Indian head cent?

wondercoin

"just bought last week my very first pattern..pretty cool coin too..its a 3 cent nickel 1865 PR67DCAM J-410..ive been told its pretty rare.. i forgot just how rare..but its a great looking coin
bruce scher"

Bruce: Funny you just mentioned your J410 at the same time Rick was asking me about the J1098. It is really neat to buy wonderful DCAM specimens, especially in grades PR67DCAM and higher. The J1098 Rick just asked me about (Indian Princess quarter), is probably one of just 2 coins in the entire pattern series ever graded PCGS-PR68DCAM, which is why I enjoy it so much. I say "probably" because PCGS does not distinguish CAM or DCAM in the pop report!! Isn't that silly!

Wondercoin

wondercoin

Well, the gang's all here! I believe Boiler owns the only other PCGS-PR68DCAM coin ever graded in the entire pattern series. And to think RKay owned them BOTH at one point!!

Boiler, this pattern "ballgame" is only in the second inning as you know. Shoot me off an old friend I miss. Kindness usually comes back around at you

Wondercoin

Lakesammman

Started out like others with tight constraints on what I would collect.....small cent 1858 patterns .....but they became harder to find and I like to collect.....so added the 1856's......just added my first 1863......help!!! It's addicting

RKKay

Both PCGS PR 68DCam. Both pattern quarters. One aluminum and one silver, but both spectacular.

boiler78

Mitch- Lakesammman is here so NOW the gangs all here! Good to see that he's just as disciplined as the rest of us.

tradedollarnut

I currently have several patterns:

1836 Name under base Gobrecht [J-58] in PCGS PF65
1875 RDTP Trade Dollar in Copper PCGS PF65RD
1875 twenty cent piece PCGS PF65RB

I also owned an 1838 Gobrecht half in PCGS PF66 but sold it recently.

cosmicdebris

I would love to collect US patterns but they are way too expensive. Anyone ever checkout some of Goetz pattern coins? Some can be had for under $100 in PR64.

boiler78

Bill- I picked up 7 new Goetz patterns at Long Beach! They are off to PCGS for grading. I'll post some images when I get them back. Probably a couple of months from now!

michael

oreville the 1856 flyer you are talking about are patterns and still not legal federal circulation issues but many collect this coin as part of the cent set

most if not most all think this coin is a regular issue legal tender coin



i myself do not collect patterns but i see they are currently being marketed and promoted



i know someone that has three monster patterns uncertified and two are unique one a super duper high rarity 7 plus plus and having been verified as such by two top expert pattern people that are no longer with us
two are nicks and one is a cent

someone i know got them years and years ago very early 1970's not many even knew about them nor cared nor wanted them..................lol

patterns as i remember were super duper hot HOT in the late 1970's early 1980's and have been asleep for the most part until a year or so ago

sincerely michael

Robgetty

God, I envy you people who can afford to collect patterns!!
Maybe someday I'll be able to work on them, but not now!!

RKKay

Michael, you are right that patterns caught fire about a year and a half ago. They haven't looked back, and there's no sign of stopping with the new Judd book and with the Redbook (with a writeup on patterns by our very own Mr. Eureka) both due out within a month and a half.

Robert, I bet you would become addicted once you started.

A Washlady here,


Schoolgirl there,


an Indian Princess...

nucklehead

Awesome thread! Rick like I told you at Long Beach you have some spectacular patterns that were worth going to the show to see just by themselves.I'm looking forwards to reading about them in the new upcoming Red Book.

RKKay

Thanks, Paul. The first two are mine. The last one is one that Wondercoin (Mitch) bought from me.

I'm also excited about the new Judd book and the pattern writeup in the Redbook.

boiler78

Rick- Do you have any idea when the new Red Book will be available? I am anxious to see which patterns are featured.

cosmicdebris

Mark I just pickued up the 3 mark to go with the 2 mark I posted above. Should be here today or tomorrow. I'll post pictures on the World Coin Forum.