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What really pissed me off about PCGS, ?the silence is deafening?!
MadMarty
Posts: 16,697 ✭✭✭
First let me say I spend about $3,000 - $4,000 a month at PCGS in grading fees. I know in the big picture it's not a lot, but for a collector’s club member, I think it's a nice chunk of change. Next, before I got laid off of work, I traveled a lot! Every company puts customer satisfaction and customer loyalty at the top of the list.
A few months back, I sent an E-Mail to David explaining that, when I fly, I fly on American Airlines. Why, well I have been a platinum member for 11 years. Along with the loyalty come perks, express check-in, first class upgrades, ect... When I stay at a Hotel I like Weston’s, why, because I'm a platinum whit them. For my loyalty I get free rooms, upgrades to suites, ect...
Well why not with PCGS, if a collectors club member spends (let's say $2,500 a month for 6 months), he gets 30 guaranteed (except when shows are going) turn around on economy! Seems like a no brainer, give better service to you loyal customers! Well David never acknowledged my E-Mail or PMs about it. PCGS knows how much we spend on grading fees, why not reward us for out loyalty!
Unfortunately, I think PCGS really doesn't care about the collector’s club people. They have economy service because they have to, because the other services have it. David, is PCGS so full if itself that our business means so little to you?
A few months back, I sent an E-Mail to David explaining that, when I fly, I fly on American Airlines. Why, well I have been a platinum member for 11 years. Along with the loyalty come perks, express check-in, first class upgrades, ect... When I stay at a Hotel I like Weston’s, why, because I'm a platinum whit them. For my loyalty I get free rooms, upgrades to suites, ect...
Well why not with PCGS, if a collectors club member spends (let's say $2,500 a month for 6 months), he gets 30 guaranteed (except when shows are going) turn around on economy! Seems like a no brainer, give better service to you loyal customers! Well David never acknowledged my E-Mail or PMs about it. PCGS knows how much we spend on grading fees, why not reward us for out loyalty!
Unfortunately, I think PCGS really doesn't care about the collector’s club people. They have economy service because they have to, because the other services have it. David, is PCGS so full if itself that our business means so little to you?
It is not exactly cheating, I prefer to consider it creative problem solving!!!
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Comments
Maybe no one wants to touch this subject because it might upset certain people. Just my view from here...Ken
Maybe it's just that economy submitters are the equivalent of the people who fly once every five years. As you noted, the perks go to the loyal and repeat customers. Is it possible that the perks (whatever that may be in the world of grading companies) go to the people who pay for faster turnaround, and/or to the people generating fees of $20,000 a month or more?
Further to the analogy of airlines and hotels, the competition is a lot tougher in those businesses. Weston's knows that if they jerk you around, you'll become a Hilton or Sheraton platinum instead in the blink of an eye. From my perspective of an non-submitter reading these boards for a couple years, my view is that many submitters will put up with just about anything before switching.
Don't get me wrong, I think $3-4K a month is a lot of money. But any business is going to cater to the top echelon, and maybe $3-4K a month of economy submissions, while certainly meaningful, doesn't qualify as a "top customer". I don't know either way, but I think it's possible.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
1. By identifying your coins differently than mine, your coins may get graded differently. Ex. there's a coin from a big-time dealer, we don't want to tick him off, so give hime the benefit of the doubt. This is a problem since third-party grading is supposed to be unbiased.
2. If the big submissions get to the front of the line then the small submissions, by default, get to the back of the line. If one customer has 1000 coins to be graded, and then a thousand customers have 1 coin each to be graded...they can have one angry customer or a thousand angry customer...since they are often behind schedule.
The silence is deafening. Seems everyone's knees became weak this weekend.
Michael
<< <i>Ah, the smell of coffee ......
Michael >>
Using any particular, free coffee mug, there Michael??
Michael
<< <i>Nope, it's just nice to watch the process of enlightment. >>
I think it's PCGS that need to be enlightend! I was a die-hard PCGS submitter, now I jumped ship! Wonder if Rick M will send me a coffee mug!
Keep up the fight Marty...
Michael
<< <i>Keep up the fight Marty... >>
The fight is over, My last 3 orders have gone to NGC, PCGS has over 450 of my coins right now (two orders are at 60 days and still in grading!). Unless it's a coin that has to be in a PCGS holder (for my registry set), they are all going to NGC (Frankies and Jeffersons excluded!).
Two possible motives; 1) They wanted to help out the collector who doesn't have easy access to a
grader or, 2) they saw another avenue for profit.
Bottom line, they didn't prepare for the flood of coins from us.
Skipper
Because Marty is a "loyal customer" of American Airlines he gets perks such as: express check-in, first class upgrades, ect...,
And because he is a "loyal customer of Weston he gets: free rooms, upgrades to suites, ect...,
And now, because he is a "loyal customer" of PCGS, he WANTS: 30 (day) guaranteed (except when shows are going) turn around on economy!
The problem is Marty, whan you recieve those free perks from AA and Weston, you can bet that those perks are not adversely affecting other AA and Weston customers, by this, I mean noone is being bumped by AA, and noone is being left out in the cold by Weston.
But IF PCGS guarantees you 30-day turnaround on your "economy" submission, other economy submitters will be bumped even further back on their turnaround times, if I HAD to label it, I would say that your "suggestion is nothing more than "selfish ignorance".
If you don't like the turnaround time for "economy" pay the higher price for aster service, play by the rules just like everyone else and quit whining.
Sincerely, Jim
If your submitting so much, you should constantly have coins coming back to sell! The complaint of slow turnaround always cracks me up!
<< <i>Hmmmmm, Lets analyze this,
Because Marty is a "loyal customer" of American Airlines he gets perks such as: express check-in, first class upgrades, ect...,
And because he is a "loyal customer of Weston he gets: free rooms, upgrades to suites, ect...,
And now, because he is a "loyal customer" of PCGS, he WANTS: 30 (day) guaranteed (except when shows are going) turn around on economy!
The problem is Marty, whan you recieve those free perks from AA and Weston, you can bet that those perks are not adversely affecting other AA and Weston customers, by this, I mean noone is being bumped by AA, and noone is being left out in the cold by Weston. Oh yes they are, I was a platinum level, if I didn't take (or didn't get) the upgrade it would go to a Gold (someone with less miles, stays).
But IF PCGS guarantees you 30-day turnaround on your "economy" submission, other economy submitters will be bumped even further back on their turnaround times, if I HAD to label it, I would say that your "suggestion is nothing more than "selfish ignorance". How much do you spen a month on submission fees? It not selfish ignorance, it's getting the level of service that I (and other collectors club members who spend lots of bucks at PCGS deserve!).
If you don't like the turnaround time for "economy" pay the higher price for aster service, play by the rules just like everyone else and quit whining. I am, I'm sending my coins to NGC now!
>>
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
"Oh yes they are, I was a platinum level, if I didn't take (or didn't get) the upgrade it would go to a Gold (someone with less miles, stays)."
Wrong Marty, you are ignoring the fact that if there were no upgrades available, you would not recieve an upgrade, understand? If all the first class seats were taken on an AA flight, AA would not bump a PAYING first class customer just to appease you. And, Weston would not kick a PAYING suite custome out on the street just to appease you.
But IF PCGS guarantees you 30-day turnaround on your "economy" submission, other economy submitters will be bumped even further back on their turnaround times, if I HAD to label it, I would say that your "suggestion is nothing more than "selfish ignorance".
"How much do you spen a month on submission fees? It not selfish ignorance, it's getting the level of service that I (and other collectors club members who spend lots of bucks at PCGS deserve!)."
If you want "the level of service that you deserve" pay for the higher level. You "deserve" the level of service that you PAY for.
If you don't like the turnaround time for "economy" pay the higher price for aster service, play by the rules just like everyone else and quit whining.
"I am, I'm sending my coins to NGC now!"
Good, less chatter from you in the economy service at PCGS will result in faster turnaround time for other economy service users who "deserve" it.
Sincerely, Jim
My point is, When you have a loyal customer, you reward him for that loyality. Works with the airlines, hotels, casinos! Hell it even work at ANACS (long ago I submitted eveything to ANACS). A 5 day turnaround submission is $15. If you subnitted over 25 coins your fee was cut to $12.50! Customer service, last time I looked PCGS is a service business! So the little dealers who submit 20-30 coins a month and get 30 turnaround should get better treatment then us the collectors club members, why because they are dealers! You get what you pay for! I go to the coffee shop and get a latte, they punch my card I buy 10 and I get one free! Why, they want my business, they want my loyality, they want my money!!!!! They give the perks to keep you coming back! That's what PCGS needs, Yes if I'm spending more then the next guy every month I sould get more for it. If someone spends more than me, then I get knocked down one rung on the ladder!
There are pros and cons to each of the big three grading services. But as far as taking care of the high-volume collectors, PCGS needs to wake up.
And Jim, as far as me switching to NGC freeing up economy for you. It's going to take a few months, I have 22 orders in right now.
and it should have the wrinkles ironed out. After all, even Rome wasnt built in a day.
Camelot
So, you got a price-break on a quantity submission, you did not, however, get bumped to the front of the line at the chagrin of those who submitted before you. Maybe the thing for PCGS to do is to offer a discount for quantity instead of allowing quantity submitters to jump ahead of the rest of the line.
"I go to the coffee shop and get a latte, they punch my card I buy 10 and I get one free!"
Again, you got a price-break, your previous purchases did not allow you to cut in front of those customers already in line, did they?
"If someone spends more than me, then I get knocked down one rung on the ladder!"
Therein lies the reason why your proposition will not work. I suspect that PCGS has hundreds, if not thousands, of economy customers that spend much more than even yourself, if PCGS implemented what you propose, the higher quantity customers (bumpers) would continuously be bumped in front of lesser quantity submitters(bumpees). THIS WOULD INCLUDE YOU AS A BUMPEE!!!
Take Tulving for example, they are a major economy submitter, should Tulving constantly be bumped to the front of the line every time they spend $2,000.00/month? If that were to happen, Tulving would be the only customer to ever get their submissions slabbed.
Obviously, the only way to run economy service is on a "first come-first served" basis.
Sincerely, Jim
<< <i>If you want "the level of service that you deserve" pay for the higher level. You "deserve" the level of service that you PAY for.
If you don't like the turnaround time for "economy" pay the higher price for faster service, play by the rules just like everyone else and quit whining. >>
Jim,
I see you've bought into what PCGS has been trying to do all along. Through their miserable turnaround times, they are trying to force people into using a more expensive tier, because it makes them more money, and because they are arrogant enough to believe that people will pay more, or put up with sub-standard economy service to obtain the "vaunted" PCGS name on their certified coins.
For the record, I think Marty is right on. Other grading companies, notably NGC, are meeting the "level of service that their customers deserve", and expect, and pay for. Nothing more, nothing less. The stability, sense of propriety, and devotion to customer service is the ultimate arbiter of whether a company succeeds or fails, and PCGS isn't demonstrating these qualities to me at the moment.
Andy
First POTD 9/19/05!!
<< <i>The company is up to its keesters in problems. Give PCGS 6-12 months
and it should have the wrinkles ironed out. After all, even Rome wasnt built in a day. >>
Bear, I would agree with you, but it's already been 6-12 months, and the silence is still deafening.
Andy
First POTD 9/19/05!!
Slap!
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
Too funny! Funnier still would be the collector community's reaction to coins in PCGS holders if they stopped taking collector submissions.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
Free quarterly submissions (four free gradings per year)
Free grading when you join (four free gradings at the one year level, or eight for the two year)
Free graded coin when you join.
Free gradings for reaching 90% in the set registry.
I guess I simply don't understand what the problem is. If the problem is that David didn't get back to your e-mail, I am sure he is a busy guy, and maybe it simply slipped his mind.
I e-mailed him with a simple problem with a coin I had and he passed the e-mail along to customer service where the issue was resolve.
Tony
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
Just wondering.
<< <i>I can not imagine that more than 5% of all the people registered in the PCGS Collectors Club spend even that in ONE YEAR. >>
I bet Marty is spending more on submissions than 95% of the dealers do! Mike
if they are so busy then maybe we should buy their stock?
It's really the stockholders and the Board, DH listens to not customers. From what I remember, own enough stock, get a seat on the Board.
I don't mean to sound sarcastic, but what if we, as collectors, starting buying up CU shares. Then they would have to listen.
By the way, what's CU stock @ right now, anyone know?
Michael
09/07/2006
Because someone spends a bunch of money with PCGS does not mean they are owed anything. Perks are for airlines and casinos! If PCGS starts giving you special treatment, then they will have to give everybody special treatment. And to do that their pricing schedule would need to increase again. Now, I am impressed that you can spend a bunch of money with the, but they are in business to fill a need in the marketplace, just like everyone else.
Can we get to a point on this message board where we stop the constant bashing. I know with the small amount of coins I submit, I am glad they changed the policy to allow collectors to submit coins. It would be a real pain if we had to go through dealers (no offense intended to dealers--it is just that it would take even longer due to the requests dealer receive). I would not want to have them take a step back because we don't appreciate the way they do business.
Try getting extra grocheries free from the market.
(At my as a buyer--I am not allowed to even take a sandwich because of the rules.)
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
Another solution, just using round figures, sounds like 100 coins at regular tier; submit 500 coins at a time (if that is still the magic number) and use the bulk submission discount, but you must coordinate your submissions prior to sending.
Applicant must have been a full-time dealer for at least three years.
Applicant and key employees must not have been convicted of a felony in the past five years.
Applicant must have capitalization of $100,000 or more including inventory.
Minimum of three credit references.
Minimum of three PCGS Authorized Dealer references.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
Straight from the Q&A page on this website. If I were Marty, instead of fighting the backlog for economy, I'd try to sign up some friends for the B & M offer. If the ASE is worth $6, the REGULAR submission (15 day) grading fee under that offer is $4.75 per coin with no minimum. $100 and a few friends would get 16 quick turn-around submissions. With a 65 day backlog, I'm surprised they are advertising for membership and giving away submissions.
BTW - As for PCGS giving perks, they don't owe any, but I would think there might be a good case for volume discount to non-authorized dealers. I'm sure they'll work it out. I could image a discount after the 50th coin per month not being a big deal. No different that the membership offer really.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor