In the last 2 weeks (HRH please read!)

MadMarty

I have sent:
96 Moderns
30 Pre-1964 coin
To NGC for grading, and nothing to PCGS. Let's do the math.
96 coins X $12/per coin=$1152
30 coins X $16/per coin=$480
Total PCGS lost out on=$1632

NCG Price is 126 coins X $11/per coin=$1386
Total I saved in grading fees $246, plus all coins will be turned around in less than 30 days!

I don't know if HRH just doesn't care about these little amounts, but they will add up. David, you need to do something about economy turn around time! In April PCGS had a price increase (It will help improve turn around times) we were told, well 2 months later think have not improved! David, I hate sending my coins to the Kingdom of Sleep, but until PCGS gets their act together you have lost another loyal customer!

ksteelheader

I agree with you wholeheartedly Marty. The economy has not gotten any quicker, actually 5 days longer now. But they still take your coins and money and then let them sit while they continue to go to parties. ( They call them shows ) And all the while, others are getting their coins graded at the parties, while yours sit back at the shop....Ken

bigindie

Marty,
The increase won't help turnaround times as much as the slow turnaround times will help correct the problem themselves (that made absolutely no sense). What I mean is, the slower PCGS gets with their turnaround times as compared to other services (especially the ones that are comparable in reputation but cost a bit less) the more collectors will switch to the other services. As the number of coins they grade declines, the quicker the turnaround time will be. Unfortunately, I assume they grade so many coins that this may take a long, long time to happen. In the end the big loser is going to be PCGS. The more time goes by, the more collectors will get disillusioned with their service and turn elsewhere.

andy007

NGC also considers modern submissions from 1955-present, not 64-present like PCGS.

kranky

<< <i> And all the while, others are getting their coins graded at the parties, while yours sit back at the shop. >>



To be fair, ksteelheder, walkthrough grading at a show costs a lot more than economy.

ksteelheader

To be fair, ksteelheder, walk through grading at a show costs a lot more than economy...While this is very true, who had their coins in for grading first.
If you took your vehicle to the shop for repairs and they shut down the shop to go to a car show to work on other peoples vehicles, would you not be pissed just a little?...Ken
And by the way, I had 2 coins in at PCGS last week for the 7 day thingy at $50 per, and they also had to wait!!!!!!!!!!

jonesy

Great point Ken!!

MadMarty

If business there is that good, they need to hire more graders! I wonder how long it takes them to grade all the bulk stuff that produces those PR70DCAM state quarters? Do you think those orders sit there for 2 1/2 months?

GaCoinGuy

I think alot of the problem lies in the state quarters, look at the pops of those things........take the 98D and the 99D for example. The 98D has a total pop in MS of 116, and the 99D has a collective total of over 6000, and the proofs are even worse, 98 clad and silver total less than 1000, while the 99 clad and silver total well over 22,000. This is where I see the bottleneck coming from. Maybe they need to hire 2 new graders to handle just the state quarters and leave the other graders free to do all the other submissions? I mean most(90-95%) of the state quarter proofs grade at 68DCAM or higher, wouldn't take that much grading talent to grade those all day. Even I could do that. Get 1 guy to put the 68's and 69s on the proofs and another to grade the MS.




Edited to add, didn't mean to steal your last post, Marty, I type too slow.

MadMarty

Let's not leave out SAEs!

ksteelheader

Here is another anology to think about. Just think how long it would take you to get the oil and filter changed in your car or truck if your garage started doing all of their work according to how much money they would make on each transaction. If a couple of people had engine or transmission repairs done, then you would be up the creek....Ken

MadMarty

Well I have to agree, show gradings are PCGSs bread and butter, our economy submissions are crumbs. I still think the problem lies in the big bulk submissions. If you could grade 5000 coins at $8 each, or 15 coins at $16 each. It is more profitable to grade the bulk orders first! But then they need to hire more people who just grade bulk orders. They know for the next 5 years the state quarters will be coming in like crazy. That should be justifaction for more graders!

Russ

Like Marty, my economy submissions are going to NGC, and will keep going to NGC as long as PCGS is moving at glacial speed. We, as collectors, may be small potatoes but put together enough potatoes and eventually you can have a pretty big stew.



<< <i>I had 2 coins in at PCGS last week for the 7 day thingy at $50 per, and they also had to wait!!!!!!!!!! >>



Ken,

You mean your submission that was received 05.28 and shipped 06.04, which is faster than the 7 business day guaranteed turnaround time? Hey, I'm just as ticked as anybody else about economy turnaround, but let's not be complaining about some other problem that doesn't exist.

Russ, NCNE

ksteelheader

Russ, this, << I had 2 coins in at PCGS last week for the 7 day thingy at $50 per, and they also had to wait!!!!!!!!!! >> was my answer to this. To be fair, ksteelheder, walkthrough grading at a show costs a lot more than economy.
My point was and still is that when they do a party (show), everything sits. Thats all I was trying to say.
And, I still send all of my coins to PCGS. I just think they should try real hard to come up with something better. If they don't, they will suffer financially in the long run. Like the number of persons now submitting to other services. Thanks for listening...Ken

Bikingnut

Does anyone know when if ever NGC will open up grading to the general public like me? I'm not a dealer so I can't submit my coins directly. I really don't like that idea.

EVillageProwler

NGC will accept submissions from the public. You do not have to be a dealer. I know that you can submit if you have a current ANA #, or if you have a paid CS subscription. I don't kow if you can submit if you only have a free CS subscription.

You may want to go across the street and ask the folks, or go to their web site at NGC.

BTW, I am not here to solicit biz for NGC, nor is it my intent to take away biz from PCGS. I am merely answering a question posed by a fellow board member.

EVP

FrattLaw

tgilliams

Every coin that goes to NGC further increases their respectability and collectability. With many more fine coins going over to NGC, as soon collector's realize this trend tey will start purchasing more NGC coins, hence value of NGC coins increase and value of PCGS coins decreases (to a small extent) if this trend continues. Since 35% of my collections are NGC coins (Commemoratives/MS Eagles) and have well over 30 NGC 70's, I would like this trend continue. Even though some of my PCGS coins may, in the long run lose some value, the upside for NGC is greater. I can make the loss in PCGS value up by buying PCGS coins at the lower prices that would result if this trend continues for a period of time of 6 to 12 months. This won't happen overnight, but their is a real possibility that this can come to reality.

dragon

ksteelheader,

Your logic makes no sense, using your oil change analogy, if you owned an oil change biz and one person was using your economy service for $10.00 and the next person was using your super express service for $100.00 and they were both receiving the same labor and materials..........who do you think gets their oil changed first, gets the best service, and is a first priority?? It's like any other for profit business, the person paying the most money for the same service is given priority treatment.

When PCGS first opened their doors in 1986, there WAS no economy service, the least expensive service was the standard $30.00 regular service, and the turnaround time was over THREE MONTHS if I remember correctly, and they had about an 80,000 coin backlog.

dragon

dragon

<<<Every coin that goes to NGC further increases their respectability and collectability. With many more fine coins going over to NGC, as soon collector's realize this trend tey will start purchasing more NGC coins, hence value of NGC coins increase and value of PCGS coins decreases (to a small extent) if this trend continues. >>>

tgilliams, Your statement makes no sense either, PCI, NTC, and ACG gets quite a few submissions also, how would you rate their credibility and collectability?? A grading services credibility is not necessarilly based on how many submissions they get or their turaround times, but rather the markets acceptance of their product vs. their peers, and PCGS is STILL number 1 in the industry and always has been regardless of all the complainers.

dragon

ksteelheader

ksteelheader,Your logic makes no sense, using your oil change analogy, if you owned an oil change biz and one person was using your economy service for $10.00 and the next person was using your super express service for $100.00 and they were both receiving the same labor and materials..........who do you think gets their oil changed first, gets the best service, and is a first priority?? It's like any other for profit business, the person paying the most money for the same service is given priority treatment. ...Say what?
...
Here is another anology to think about. Just think how long it would take you to get the oil and filter changed in your car or truck if your garage started doing all of their work according to how much money they would make on each transaction. If a couple of people had engine or transmission repairs done, then you would be up the creek....Ken ...Now, this is my statement in its entirety.

Where, I ask, do you see mention of an oil change service? Now, I ask, who is making sense here. Maybe you need to take your time while reading so that you can comprehend what you are reading....Ken

dragon

<<<Here is another anology to think about. Just think how long it would take you to get the oil and filter changed in your car or truck if your garage started doing all of their work according to how much money they would make on each transaction.>>>

ksteelheader, Isn't this you who just made reference to an oil change service in this thread and is that not an exact quote of your above post???

MadMarty

My point is, yes the walkthroughs get priority service (hey they are paying $100 a pop). It's us little people who get pushed to the bottom of the pile. Come on, I submit more then some of PCGS smaller dealers. But they have priority over me, why because they are a dealer! If I'm spending the money and am loyal to PCGS, I should get better service. Right now I can get better service for less money are NGC, so that's where my orders are going. Some coins get better service at PCGS, so those go there. All I'm saying is that if you spend money supporting a company, and your a good loyal customer, you should get perks for it!

MadMarty

See this thread, it sums it all up!

ms70

I agree with GaCoinGuy & MadMarty- The bottle neck has got to be the State Quarters & the SAE's. I'm obviously not the owner of a
coin grading company, but I think it's safe to say that between the State Quarters & SAE's there should be enough income to pay for
graders dedicated just to them. Maybe the trouble is finding people that want to be & are qualified to be graders?

ksteelheader

That is my statement! WHERE, Where does it say oil change service?????????
Here is another anology to think about. Just think how long it would take you to get the oil and filter changed in your car or truck if your garage started doing all of their work according to how much money they would make on each transaction. If a couple of people had engine or transmission repairs done, then you would be up the creek....Ken ...

Sir, if you are going to quote me, use the WHOLE quote, not just the portion that pleases you.....Ken

Conder101

<< <i>If you could grade 5000 coins at $8 each, or 15 coins at $16 each. It is more profitable to grade the bulk orders first >>


Actually it is more profitable to grade the $16 coins first.

If you grade the $16 coins first it takes 7.5 minutes, you can then bill for the $240 and you have delayed the billing of the $40,000 for the 5,000 by 7.5 minutes or effectively not at all. If you grade the 5,000 coins first those first 7.5 minutes are only worth $120 dollars and you don't get to bill for them for 5.2 days. Plus it also delays the billing of the $240 for the $16 coins by 5.2 days as well. Ineither case you will have earned the same money after 5.2 days but by doing the $16 coins first you get the money a little faster (Plus get the coins back to their owners sooner without delaying the bulk lot submitter.). Plus if during the 5.2 days you get in up to 51 other groups of 15 $16 coins, they can be bumped to the head of the line, graded and billed without delaying the payment for the 5,000 coin bulk lot until day 7 while adding another $12,288 in fees.

mdwoods

I think the higher prices PCGS slabs bring and the stricter grading for PCGS slabs make it worth the wait. And while PCGS has lightened up a bit as of late, they are still the premier grading service. Ask the top collectors in the country whose slabs they prefer. Generally PCGS will be the choice. The quality is just a bit better. mdwoods

In Lincolns for example, I have rarely ,if ever, seen a suspiciously red coin in a PCGS slab. I don't think it's true for any other
company.

ElectricEye

just out of curiousity? does PCGS operate one shift or three (24 hrs)? perhaps hiring techs that only specialize in ASEs or state quarters to work 2nd or 3rd shift to cut down on the backlog might help? part time graders who specialize as well?

TheNumish

Grading is a perfect business. They get paid before doing the work, they have no inventory and they get to think of their customers as complete morons. Where elese do you pay upfront for something where the service doesn't get done for 60 days? These guys have goose that lays the golden eggs and don't even realize it. You'd think for the incredible amount of money they make on grading coins they would solve this problem even if they have to overpay some temporary graders to get caught up.

tgilliams

D

Think I said it too strongly. NGC will never gain the full respectabily of PCGS. PCGS will always be #1. But I think some (small part) of the price disparity, most genuine, will decrease because collector's are sending coins that should have been in PCGS holders are now in NGC holders. Same coins-same quality, now NGC coins. If this goes on for an elongated period, there must be an affect. Collector's will be buying same quality coins in NGC holders and paying less. The reference to PCI, NTC is ridicious.

DCAMFranklin

Marty- HRH may be the Pres. of PCGS and the largest individual stockholder at CLCT, but he still has a Board of Directors, with a fiduciary responsibility to ALL the shareholders of the public corporation, to whom he must answer. Granted most are friendly & controlled, but that is where you should address your letters of complaint!! You can obtain their individual mailing addresses at numerous investment websites. Good luck!

darktone

<< <i>Here is another anology to think about. Just think how long it would take you to get the oil and filter changed in your car or truck if your garage started doing all of their work according to how much money they would make on each transaction. If a couple of people had engine or transmission repairs done, then you would be up the creek....Ken >>

I own my own auto repair shop and yes big money jobs and the big customers( car dealers+ fleets) get priority treatment because this is where the money is and I will delay oil changes if needed because oil changes don't really make me money. Maybe PCGS views economy service the same way I view an oil change?

ElectricEye, they work one shift and David Hall said a while ago that quality graders were hard to find and I believe they are scarce. mike

Android

<< <i>Same coins-same quality, now NGC coins. If this goes on for an elongated period, there must be an affect. Collector's will be buying same quality coins in NGC holders and paying less. >>



SHHHHH! We certainly don't want to spread this around too much! After all, it would be a shame for people to discover they've been over-paying for PCGS plastic all this time, wouldn't it? What will happen when people start realizing that the plastic doesn't matter? That will be more of a blow to PCGS than anything else, and because of the things mentioned in this thread, and all of the other threads that addressed the same issues, it will come back and bite them is the a$$ eventually.

Andy

Bear

With all its faults and all its ills, PCGSS is still #1. Its PCGS for me.