Where are all the coins?

RGL

In percentage terms, PCGS (even considering resubmissions which boost the totals) has slabbed only a small percentage of the 1936-42 era and 1950-64 proofs. Even if you throw in NGC's numbers and consider ANACS and the less services, the number of coins still out there (minus spent, damaged, lost, etc.) are still impressive. It only goes to show the slabbed market is but a tiny slice of the pie and that there are a ton of collectors out there who do not and never will slab coins or buy them. Look at the numbers. I must say I was blown away when I did the math.

Let's take, for example, 1942 -- the highest mintage year for pre-50 proofs -- and the percentage of mintage slabbed by PCGS:

Cent: 1,756 (5.4%); Nickel Ty. 1: 2,078 (7.0%); Nickel, Ty. 2: 3,775 (13.7%); Dime: 4,629 (20.7%); Quarter: 2,834 (13.4%); Half: 4,856 (23.0%)

For 1950 ... the numbers are paltry, particularly including first proof issues for the Roosevelt and Franklin ...

Cent: 948 (1.8%); Nickel: 953 (1.8%); Dime: 987 (1.9%); Quarter: 1,430 (2.8%); Half: 2,544 (5.0%)

Looking at a series, the Jeffs, only 6.1 percent (1941) to 8.8 percent (1939) of the 1938-41 coins have been slabbed by PCGS.

Is the survival rate of earlier proofs that poor or is there a ton of coins still out there for those willing to search for them? Comments welcomed.

LucyBop

There are nomore Franklins out there, and everyone should stop immediately searching for them. Trust me, don't waste your time...

Search for the thousands of accented hairy kennedys!

longtimecollector

Some people "buy the coin ???? not the holder????"

roadrunner

The survival rates of early proofs is relatively high. Maybe anywhere from 30-75%. I think most sort of figure around 50%. See no reason why the 1936 and later proofs would be well over 50%. I wonder how many of the common silver proof Franklins, Washingtons, and Roosevelts got melted in 1979-1980?

roadrunner

sinin1

Lots of early 50's in those little boxes still - also lots in Capitol holders - many more just plain ugly and not worth it to send off for grading service to get big percentage of coins value for priveledge of slabbing.

Russ

<< <i>I wonder how many of the common silver proof Franklins, Washingtons, and Roosevelts got melted in 1979-1980? >>



In his book, Tomaska relates stories of proof sets being ripped apart by the truckload by dealers and the silver coins being dumped in to 55 gallon barrels for shipping off to the smelter.

Russ, NCNE

Bear

Come on Russ we know where all the 1964 Kennedy Half Dollars are dont we.

There all in your darn basement ,thats where they are.

RGL

TTT for the weekend, would like to see more observations!

cladking

Significant numbers of proof sets were destoyed in the silver melt. A few things
should be remembered though: These were only the dates which had a higher
melt value than numismatic value. These were only the sets which were actually
available during the very brief time that silver prices were so high. A few people
were actively pursuing the best examples even in those days so the high grade
populations were not as heavily impacted.

Mint sets through 1969 were also being destroyed for the silver. While fewer of
these were available for melt, a higher percentage were actually destroyed since
interest in gem uncs was lower and many more of these sets traded at less than
melt value. Even a few '65 and '66 SMS's went to the refiners at the height of the
melt. Large numbers of the minors and clads went into circulation.

Early proof sets suffered little attrition from the melt.

DHeath

RGL,

Lots of these coins aren't cost effective to slab. I've had several 40s Washingtons that would grade no better than 62, and it doesn't make much sense to spend the energy to have them graded. They are an $80 coin raw, and a $90 coin graded. I own probably 100 1940-1960 proof coins that are and will remain raw, including a nice almost complete Washington set (missing the 36 and 37). The only coins that I would consider submitting are the ones worth more than say $150 that I intended to sell, or the ones that would easily cam with a shot at dcam.

stman

<< <i>It only goes to show the slabbed market is but a tiny slice of the pie and that there are a ton of collectors out there who do not and never will slab coins or buy them. >>



I've felt this way for years. But most people still want to live by the POPS. It's like playing the field numbers in craps.... They say play the field, end up sleeping in the field. And with moderns, same thing but worse. JMO

cladking

<< <i>

I've felt this way for years. But most people still want to live by the POPS. It's like playing the field numbers in craps.... They say play the field, end up sleeping in the field. And with moderns, same thing but worse. JMO >>



Then what you're saying is the older coins have mostly all been graded so the
pops really mean something and few of the modern (1936 to date) coins have
been. So as more moderns get graded the pops will kill people who buy coins
based on a mistaken belief in their rarity?

Perhaps I missed your point.

cladking

Of course many of the older proofs have more value being sold raw to those who just
want a nice coin or to those who think they'll get a high grade than they would have if
they were actually graded. Even in the older coins, it is the higher grae coins that pay
the bills.

keets

It only goes to show the slabbed market is but a tiny slice of the pie and that there are a ton of collectors out there who do not and never will slab coins or buy them.

hey randy

it's nice to see another collector express that sentiment online. i've said it several times in threads and some members refuse to even consider it as a possibility. i'll give a case in point. at a recent club auction a member had two NGC MS67RD Lincolns on the block and he bought them back at less than $40 each with perhaps three bidders. in the same auction a raw 1890-CC Morgan in F-VF sold for nearly $70 with some of the older guys always bidding strong on those dollars but hedging when a slabbed one is being sold. i just think they don't trust the holders or the companies and they seem very resistant to a label saying what grade a coin is.

regarding your speculations about the whereabouts of the MIA proofs, i suspect the graded pops will rise steadily over the next 10-15 years as the generation that owns them passes them on to the current generation of collectors. in a small way this is similar to a thought i enunciated in cladking's thread about all the missing 1916-D dimes. i just assume many are held by older collectors with no incentive to get them holdered. there would only be two reasons to do that----grading and authentication. they don't need someone to do either cause they are skeptical of the former and don't need the latter since they pulled the coin from change.

i also agree with what DonHeath said regarding lower grade coins. the incentive for holdering isn't quite there------------yet.

al h.

Nic

Hi all. During my late teens and early twenty's I co-owned a coin store ... 1977-80. At the peak we "melted" ALL proof sets after 55, any circ Columbian, Monroe, St.Mtn., BTW/WC commem, any non-key barber vg or less, any non-key walker/merc any circ. grade, almost all franklins, roosies, and JFK's unc/pr or not, etc. You get the point. We were like almost everyone else. Any silver half was "worth" $24... in 1980 $ values. These coins are now bars.... but there's still plenty left. K