Breaking Unc & Proof Sets for PCGS

trmweb

I'm curious about member experience taking a coin from either an unc or proof set and sending it for grading at PCGS.

Has it been profitable?
What coins are better than others to do this with?
What do you look for...?
Any one do this with Jefferson nickels?

It just seems that some MS67 & MS68 coins are selling for a real premium.

CarlWohlforth

Lots of people try this game. The folks that say things like "I found a MS 68 in change the other day" are usually disappointed when they try it as their 68 might come back 64. The folks that say "I looked through 5,000 Jeffersons from fresh rolls and found 4 that are 66 FS shot 67" sometimes get a good one.

cladking

For most dates/mm/denominations the best coins have gone into the
mint sets for many years. There are some that don't appear in mint sets
as gems and some that don't appear in mint sets at all. But usually the
best coins are in the mint sets. You really need to compare each coin to
others of the same date to have much success at this, though. Some of
the coins will appear to be very gem, but if you look at the same coin in ten
other sets you'll see they are nearly as nice or nicer.

The proof coins are almost invariably made with more care. It can take a
trained eye to tell a really good '84 proof dime from a more typical example.
Those who have learned this really love the nicest coins. Other dates will
have a wider range in quality. A gem proof '68 half doesn't require nearly so
much learning to spot.

Sending these coins in for slabbing can be profitable. Generally though you'll
need at least a little experience to get good at it. There is a lot more to know
here than just what each gem should look like. You'll also need to know how to
find sets and acquire choice ones at favorable prices. You'll find many subtleties
which need to be learned also; how best to open proof sets, how best to spot
the gems, how to store the good ones, which service to use for which coins, and
just the general nuts and bolts of this. This isn't meant to be in any way discour-
aging, There are many rewards for doing this besides the potential profit and the
knowledge you'll gain. There's a lot of fun and education. You'll find varieties that
you didn't know existed. You'll learn a lot about this emerging market (moderns are
not just high grade coins).

A few people have gone down this path before you. Talk to them if you can find one
who'll talk.

I can't help much with the grading end of the question or with the proofs, but have
looked at a lot of the quarters in mint sets.







typo

relayer

<< <i>Has it been profitable? >>



only for PCGS

trmweb

CarlWohlforth - Your logic makes sense. When I was a kid I remember looking at 1,000's of lincoln cents for those old wheat ones. I found very few notible ones, but those were enough to keep me looking.

cladking - Thanks for the steller reply!


<< <i>I can't help much with the grading end of the question or with the proofs, but have
looked at a lot of the quarters in mint sets. >>

I've been looking at quarters in rolls recently. I'm actually trying to fill some books for my kids. I've come across some nice pre-state quarters, but I'm not good at grading. I think I lean on the side of being too conservative and calling everything in circulation xf or au. Is is possible to find rolled quarters that are MS60 or higher? What details should I look for? Eagle feathers? Bag Scratches? Tone? Washington curls?

cladking

Pre state quarter uncs in circulation are getting decidedly hard to find. The '96 and
later coins are seen occasionally, but the earlier ones are real hard. Unc $.25's dated
before 1987 are no longer really possible in circulation and before 1982 the AU's are
gone. Look for coins that are nicely struck with a minimum of wear and no damage
on all the coins in circulation. Some may be obtainable in only Fine. Unfortunately all
of the '65-'98 BU rolls are extremely tough. A few are virtually non-existent, with most
of the available rolls assembled from mint sets. There may be hordes of the '96-'98
coins, but these are not being offered at this time. There could be a few smaller hordes
of '93 to '95 rolls, but they can't be too substantial since these prices have been rising.
There are still large numbers of bicentennial rolls around. Many of these have been put
into circulation over the years by tired longs, but there are still many rolls available. The
'65 is one of the easiest eagle reverse BU quarter rolls to find. Many of these were set
aside by speculators and collectors who were simply in the habit of saving rolls every
year. Each year of the clads saw a huge drop off in the number of rolls set aside until
it virtually stopped in 1969. After the Bicentennial issue there was a small resurgence
but this too faded out by the early 80's. Gems for a few dates can be found only in the
rolls, more typically there is a very low incidence of gems in rolls. Coupled with the very
few number of rolls available it is likely that there are NO gems in ANY rolls for some dates.
Many of the early dates which were saved in rolls have trickled into circulation for years.
Nice XF's of the '65 to '67 coins are often still seen in circulation and are older evidence of
this.

Since the advent of the state quarter program hundreds of thousands of folders for these
older coins have been sold at book stores and coin shops. These apparently are mostly be-
ing filled up from the coins in circulation. The attrition on higher grade, better date, and older
coins is now a little higher than for the more typical coin. Even the circulated set is just chal-
lenging enough to make it fun to put together. And if you use only the nicest coins it can be
a lot more of a challenge.

trmweb

<< <i>Even the circulated set is just challenging enough to make it fun to put together. And if you use only the nicest coins it can be a lot more of a challenge. >>

That's the challenge that I enjoy. Comparing "my personal best" with the best in a roll. I've been getting a couple rolls of quarters each week to seach through. Sometimes I get them from banks or big stores like Walmart. Unrolling them kinda reminds me of opening a baseball pack as a kid. Without the stale gum! Its been fun and I have seen some real appealing coins. I've been toying with doing this with Jefferson nickels... trying to find full step ones. To me, this is the part of the hobby that is stimulating and at times rewarding.

Thanks for your feedback on this thread!

cladking

It's a blast to check the circulating coins. There are people starting to check
them now so the good coins are beginning to disappear, but most of them are
still out there. Many of the people pulling them out of circulation are children
and newbies and relatively few of them are aware of the varieties.

The 1977 to 1984 quarters appear with two different reverses. Look at the
right side of the "N" in UNUM. On the scarcer small motto (type "d") variety
there is a much greater distance to the eagle's head. The relief is also much
lower and there are numerous other subtle differences. This is rare on the
earlier dates but is quite common by 1984. There is no 82-P. There are DDR's
on some 71-D and 72-D coins though these are rare. The 1974 appears with
a 1972 reverse (very scarce). The 1985-P has two different obverses. They
are the small bust and the large bust. The small bust is the scarcer issue and it
is spotted by the distance from the "E" in LIBERTY to the bust. (greater). There
is also an 84-D/D. Some of the earlier issues come with a type "b" reverse.

The small bust 85-P is one of the more fun coins to look for. It was produced by
several dies so it can actually be found without a huge amount of effort yet it's
scarce enough to be a challenge. The same would apply to the '79-P & D type "d"
reverses. Earlier ones are tough and later ones are too easy.

Some of these coins likely don't exist in unc. In a few cases they'll be rare in grades
over Fine. This is not a comprehensive list.

CarlWohlforth

Finding a complete set of Full Step Jefferson nickels is very, very hard. I think there are very few FS Jeffs known for a few of the dates. I believe this series will perk up with the new designs coming...

trmweb

<< <i>Finding a complete set of Full Step Jefferson nickels is very, very hard. I think there are very few FS Jeffs known for a few of the dates. I believe this series will perk up with the new designs coming... >>

You have some beautiful Jefferson nickels -- I especially like the 1941 PR67. That tone is amazing!!

I've got two questions for you --
1. Have you sent in any Jeffersons for regrading or a 'FS' designation?
2. Do you know of a link to the new nickel design? Or is it even out?

poptopsRus

We do this all the time, but it can take plenty of time, and plent of $$ in grading fees before you learn to get it right. It can be done but you need to go though hundreds of sets just to find one coin worth slabbing, and you still might not get it right. It take trial and error and remember, you aren't the only one doing it. I wish you the best of luck with it!!!!

Robgetty

Cladking,

I love your quote, that "Pre state quarter uncs in circulation are getting decidedly hard to find".
I find it ironic that we can discuss finding uncirculated coins in circulation.

(Of course we live in a society that drives on parkways and parks on driveways, so who says that
terminoligy makes sense!!)

trmweb

<< <i>... a society that drives on parkways and parks on driveways ... >>



Robgetty - Have you seen the site called -- 1872 PATTERN COINS, DIE TRIALS & FANTASIES? Hope this doesn't add to your lifetime project!

itsnotjustme

I purchased 23 2002 mint sets and did not find one coin worth slabbing out of the 230 coins.

2001 was a different story, scoring 2 MS67FS Jeffs out of 50 plus mint sets.

CarlWohlforth

There are quite a few people here who try to make FS nickels as Brian did.

Personally I have successfully crossed a few FS nickels from NGC to PCGS holders. I bought one Jeff raw and it is in at PCGS now, but I bought it as a FS nickel so paid up for it.

Thanks for looking at my set! I too like that '41. I upgrade coins in the same grade if I find one with more cameo contrast or with cool toning. I just bought a '71-S in NGC 67 Ultra Cam from a board member who found this coin in a proof set and sent it in. I have a coin in 67 Cam I keep thinking deserves a DCAM and sent it to NGC once and PCGS twice. It is still a 67 Cam I have had some success with upgrades and crossovers (about 1 out of 3 worked for me), but they weren't Jefferson nickels.

I think the US Mint is considering using some existing Jefferson medals as a model for the new nickel. I know they need to work very quickly if they expect to have a new 2003 nickel. I haven't heard if they have finalized a design yet or not.

cladking

For most dates the nickels are the hardest coins to find as superb gems
in mint sets. This is partially because so many will not have full steps.
These also tend to come with lots of scratches on the obverse.