Legal hypothetical: If Littleton sends a YN unsolicited coins on approval , Can he keep them?
wingedliberty
Posts: 4,805 ✭✭✭
This popped into my head in light of the recent Littleton thread.
What are the laws governing this?
Brian.
What are the laws governing this?
Brian.
0
Comments
Russ, NCNE
I think there was a thread recently about strong California regulations regarding protecting seniors against such a thing?
Brian.
<< <i>According to POstal regulations, if you receive anything in the mail that you did not order, you are under no obligation to return it. >>
Which is why when I got catalogs from them, I said no coins on approval... I got some free coins, since I didn't ask for them
Geez, why does Littleton have to resort to this tactic of scaring people (kids and senile old folks) into buying their 10X retail coins? Sounds like they could run a legitimate coin shop..................right?
Let's get David Sundman or one of his mafia crew members to respond to this issue here on the forum. I will email them this thread.
Greg
Once you hook someone, they might keep buying the product untill they
die from lung cancer , or in the case of Littleton, actually try to sell the coins they buy.
Camelot
It is advertising done cheaper and much more effective than print ads, because you can get right to a buyer in a unique way. I was sent some coins once unsolicited, and I kept them...all $1.50 worth as it wasn't even worth my time to lick a stamp and put it on the envelope.
Guess it depends on the value of the coin(s)
The postage was half the value of the coins.
If it had been a mistake or the coins were of value I would have returned them.
Never did business with them again.
They must do well at this or they would stop.
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A company sends you a gift in the mail--a ball point pen, a key chain, a tie. But you didn't order it. What do you do? If you are the type of person this company is looking for, you may feel guilty about accepting the item without paying for it. Don't feel guilty! It's yours, and you are under no obligation to pay anything.
You, the consumer, may only legally be sent two types of merchandise through the mail without your consent or agreement:
Free samples which are clearly and conspicuously marked as such.
Merchandise mailed by a charitable organization that is soliciting contributions.
And in these two cases, you can consider the merchandise a gift if you wish. In all other situations, it is illegal to send merchandise to someone, unless that person has previously ordered or requested it.
These rules are codified in Title 39, United States Code, Section 3009. That section of the Postal Reorganization Act of 1970 incorporates these protections for American consumers and makes the mailing of unordered merchandise unfair methods of competition and unfair trade practices under the law.
If you do not wish to pay for unsolicited merchandise or make a donation to a charity sending such an item, you may do one of three things (in each case, by law, you have no obligation to the sender):
If you have not opened the package, you may mark it "Return to Sender," and the Postal Service will return it with no additional postage charged to you.
If you open the package and don't like what you find, you may throw it away.
If you open the package and like what you find, you may keep it for free. In this instance, "finders-keepers" applies unconditionally.
Furthermore, it is illegal for a company that sends you unordered merchandise to follow the mailing with a bill or dunning communication.
If you are aware of violations of the federal law prohibiting the mailing of unordered merchandise, or if you have personally had difficulty with such items--especially if you are sent statements demanding payment for the merchandise--you should contact you local postmaster or the nearest Postal Inspector.
If someone asks for coins on approval, then they presumably agreed to the return policy, which is likely on their dollar.
If out of the blue someone gets coins on approval, that isn't much different, I would argue, than spam email, and I doubt many people feel obligated to respond to spam.
On the few occasions when I run into this, I have contacted the sender and said if you want it back, send me the postage .... not one occasion had the postage ever come. Woopee, I get someone's junk.
Russ you are wrong on this. Minors CAN enter contracts but a contract is voidable by the minor for any reason, so people don't generally enter into contracts with minors. But they still can enter a contract.
a fool and his money....................
I hate it when you see my post before I can edit the spelling.
Always looking for nice type coins
my local dealer
For some life lasts a short while, but the memories it holds last forever.
-Laura Swenson
In memory of BL, SM, and KG. 16 and forever young, rest in peace.
My question, do you think coin and stamp companies that send out such approvals to kids, knowing this? I think so.
How many kids today are as savy as Jeremy the Airplanenut?
Bottom line; James is correct. And you don't have to be a lawyer like him to know it. I've known this for years having received other unsolicited through the mail.
Cheers,
Bob
But then again, you might want to get the opinion of an expert. Contracts are not my area of expertise. It may also depend on the law of that state although i don't think so because Postal laws are usually federal.
Now if the child cut his hand on the package because it was negligently packed........
be out the cost mailing which doesnt seem fair either.
Camelot
that goes both adult or YN
<< <i>Needless to say, the ethical thing would not be to keep the coins >>
I see, Adrian. And I suppose trolling for suckers the way LC does IS ethical?
Companies like LC send unsolicited material all the time. They figure the majority of people will either return or pay for them (under pressure). Those that don't bend to their tactics are chalked up as the cost of doing business. I represent their cost of doing business.
Sorry, they know the law and they will lose if they send unsolicited material to me.
Cheers,
Bob
And, Bear, yes, the person might be out the postage and i would agree, if it is unsolicited, it wouldn't be reasonable for the company mailing the stuff to expect it to be returned at all if it were unsolicited.....and ...
.....it serves 'em right!
My original comments were primarily directed at a scenario where the minor solicits the goods and then he or the parents wants to stick the sender.
(I guess even if the sender asks before the shipment is mailed about the age of the recipient, the recipient if he lies would still not have to return the shipment - although the impact of fraud in this case might chance things. Obviously, there are many varaiables that can come into play - these variables and the law's desire to serve many interests give rise to the multi-storied buildings that house the millions of law books. Some people just love to do legal research.....not me!)
<< <i>My original comments were primarily directed at a scenario where the minor solicits the goods and then he or the parents wants to stick the sender >>
Ahhh...now THAT makes sense. That would be totally unethical. As a matter of fact, Adrian, wouldn't that be fraud? Or theft by deception?
Cheers,
Bob
Camelot
<< <i>California Civil Code Sec. 1584.5. No person, firm, partnership, association, or corporation, or agent or employee thereof, shall, in any manner, or by any means, offer for sale goods, wares, merchandise, or services, where the offer includes the voluntary and unsolicited sending or providing of goods, wares, merchandise, or services not actually ordered or requested by the recipient, either orally or in writing. The receipt of any goods, wares, merchandise, or services shall for all purposes be deemed an unconditional gift to the recipient who may use or dispose of the goods, wares, merchandise, or services in any manner he or she sees fit without any obligation on his or her part to the sender or provider.
If, after any receipt deemed to be an unconditional gift under this section, the sender or provider continues to send bill statements or requests for payment with respect to the gift, an action may be brought by the recipient to enjoin the conduct, in which action there may also be awarded reasonable attorney's fees and
costs to the prevailing party.
For the purposes of this section and limited to merchandise or services offered for sale through the mails, the "voluntary and unsolicited sending or providing of goods, wares, merchandise, or services not actually ordered or requested by the recipient, either orally or in writing," includes any merchandise or services selected
by the company and offered to the consumer which will be mailed to him or her for sale or on approval or provided to him or her unless he or she exercises an option to reject the offer of sale or receipt on approval. Merchandise or services selected by the seller and offered for sale on a periodic basis must be affirmatively ordered by a statement or card signed by the consumer as to each periodic offer of merchandise or services. >>
That's California law, but there are other state and federal laws with the same effect.
The real issue is all these "scams" that try to get you to order something on the cheap and hope you don't see the fine print that your order is authorizing them to ship you more crap on approval. The other "scam" similar to this is the one where someone sends you a check out of the blue, and there is fine print that states that you are authorizing the company to do something just by cashing the check.