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Morgan VAM question

I am looking at an 1889 Morgan. I am having some trouble categorizing it (i.e., assigning the VAM). The obverse appears to be "III(superscript 2) 1" (Normal die of III(superscript 2) type with tail of 9 touching body. However, the reverse is not "C(superscript 3) a" - which would make the coin VAM 1. I thought it might be "C(superscript 3) b" - which would make the coin VAM 19, but it has no doubling on the left wreath leaves or TED. It does however have doubling on IN GOD WE TRUST. Has anyone heard of a variant of VAM 19?

Here is a close up of the left wreath leaves.

image

Here is a close up of the IN GOD WE TRUST.

image

Numonebuyer

Comments

  • MadMartyMadMarty Posts: 16,697 ✭✭✭
    When it comes to VAMs, it's worth the extra $5 when you submit it to ANACS!
    It is not exactly cheating, I prefer to consider it creative problem solving!!!

  • numonebuyernumonebuyer Posts: 2,136
    Upon further investigation, I don't even believe I know which obverse is correct. The 9 is certainly raised, but I have no doubling on any of the date marks.

    image

    numonebuyer
  • Dog97Dog97 Posts: 7,875 ✭✭✭
    Yours looks like vam 19. I think you are overlooking the doubling in the wreath. You only see it here: Text
    There is a vam 19A with open 9 and a vam 22 with closed 9. The vam site says these were the old vam 5a with the bar wing.
    Change that we can believe in is that change which is 90% silver.
  • numonebuyernumonebuyer Posts: 2,136
    I have double checked the left wreath and compared it to the picture in the VAM book. There is NO doubled left wreath leaves. There is also no doubled TED (from UNITED).

    numonebuyer
  • numonebuyernumonebuyer Posts: 2,136
    I think this is a better picture.

    image

    Numonebuyer
  • Dog97Dog97 Posts: 7,875 ✭✭✭
    It looks like a high 9 which is vams 7,8, & 9, more like 9 with the far date and die chips. The doubling you took for 19 could be machine doubling. It's hard to attribute vams from pictures but maybe this will give you a direction to look in.
    Change that we can believe in is that change which is 90% silver.
  • numonebuyernumonebuyer Posts: 2,136
    Good input. It can't be VAM 7, 8 or 9 because the nine is closed.

    I know it is hard to tell from the photo, but every letter in IN GOD WE TRUST is doubled to the side (not up or down).

    What about VAM 13 (or at least its obverse)? As you can see in the photo of the date, there is no doubling of any of the date numbers.

    It appears this coin has an obverse from VAM 13 "III(superscript 3) 13" and a reverse from a variant of the reverse of VAM 19 "C(superscript 3) b".

    Numonebuyer
  • Dog97Dog97 Posts: 7,875 ✭✭✭
    Being you eliminated vam 7,8, & 9 I'm led back to vam 19.
    I'm not saying that's what it is because I don't stay current on the vams & the newest vam book is over 10 years old. There have been several thousands of new vams added since then and it's entirely possible that you may have found a new die pairing. The vam book lists 21 pairings but there are actually currently 30 attributed vams for the 89-P. It would be improper for me to do other than discuss the possibilities of what you might have and I highly encourage collectors to submit their finds to the experts for proper attribution.
    Change that we can believe in is that change which is 90% silver.
  • numonebuyernumonebuyer Posts: 2,136
    Dog

    So, what do I do now? I have went to all of the VAM web pages that I know of, and they seem to be out of date.

    Thanks for your replys by the way.

    Numonebuyer

  • Dog97Dog97 Posts: 7,875 ✭✭✭
    Have you looked at the vam site Text? There's an email link to contact the vam guys directly and the ssdc link has more info on submitting vams. I think you may have to join the club but I wouldn't swear to it. I used to send coins to Leroy Van Allen at PO Box 196 Sidney OH 45363 and he would screen them if I included return postage. I haven't been in contact with Mr. Van Allen for quite some time so don't send any coins without contacting him first cause my info may be obsolete.
    ANACS offers vam attribution but what the deal is you have to list the VAM # and they & verify it and put it on the label but if it's not a known variety or you put the wrong number then you don't get the designation.
    Change that we can believe in is that change which is 90% silver.

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