First thought: set completion or high grades?

qmayer

Just a little discussion topic. When you start a set, do you:

1) look to complete it first and upgrade later, or

2) make sure all the cards are high grade and not worry about your completion percentage


For example, I'm working on the Nolan Ryan Master Set and I only purchase PSA 9s (unless I can get an 8 at a great price; for 1980+ at the moment) and don't worry about the completion.

Justin

dude

I'm somewhere in between. I go for high grade cards, but sometimes in vintage sets there are some very tough cards to find in high grade, so when I hit about 90% completion, I relax my standards a bit and finish the set and upgrade later.

LuxuryWines

I set a goal with each set I start . The goal usually entails the following:

1.) Minimum grade card I will accept

2.) Overall grade I am trying to complete the set in

3.) % of SMR I am willing to pay for commons and stars.

I genereally try and buy only 1 card... but in smaller sets (36 Goudey is a good example) I treat myself to an upgrade now and then....

AlanAllen

Definitely #2. I don't see the point in buying a grade lower than I'd be happy with just to temporarily fill a spot. On sets where I'm going for "top pop" all the way, I'll buy lower than top pop in some cases. For example, for my NFL Rushers set, I bought a PSA 8 Hornung when a 9 was available, simply because I'm years away from affording a 9. I also eagerly bought a Jerome Bettis 9 because there are only two 10's and who knows if I'll ever see one. But, for sets like '62 Fleer where I'm going for straight 8, I don't even consider 7's no matter what the price.

Joe

toppsgun

As a vintage collector, I rarely, if ever, buy graded 7's, but will submit raw cards and take a 7 if it comes back as such. I can always upgrade later, or not. A raw 7, plus a grading fee for commons is almost always less than the price for a graded 8 and there is always a chance it will come back 8 in the first place.

I do understand, however, how some collectors will never "taint" their set with a 7 and would rather sit on 99.83% complete for a while.

MickeyC

<< <i>As a vintage collector, I rarely, if ever, buy graded 7's, but will submit raw cards and take a 7 if it comes back as such. I can always upgrade later, or not. A raw 7, plus a grading fee for commons is almost always less than the price for a graded 8 and there is always a chance it will come back 8 in the first place.

I do understand, however, how some collectors will never "taint" their set with a 7 and would rather sit on 99.83% complete for a while. >>



I'll take 7's! 7's are great for the budget constrained collectors. I'm working on a 72 set in 7 and cannot believe the deals I'm getting on hi numbers. They have ranged from $4-$10 for graded, unqualified 7's. Buying those same cards raw would cost at least $8-$15 with the hopes of scoring an 8.

My 71 set is really the only one I don't waiver from, I'm trying for 8's (the 7's I have listed are my "mistakes" from submitting). For those of you who are working on that particular set, you know how the differences between 7's, 8's, and 9's are very apparent.

If anyone is thinking of submitting their 72's and worried about coming back 7's, I'd be interested in those 7's.

But, there is nothing better than dropping a card into that set, knowing you are one more closer to completion!

Mark

Virtualizard

toppsgun,

I agree with you. For my vintage sets, I won't purchase a card graded lower than PSA 8NQ, but if I submit the card myself, I'll include it in my set regardless of grade (I think I may still have a PSA 5 and a few PSA 6's in my 1970 Topps set ). I also include a good quality scan of every card in my sets, no matter what the grade is.

JEB.

Tipem

I go for the grade and take the set completion as it comes.

Vic

GeneralJim

For me completion comes first mainly because the sets i am working on are so oddball (1988 Fournier Estrellas basketball stickers and 1985 Prism jewel basketball stickers) that the only way for completion is for me to submit cards myself because some of the cards have a pop of 0 . If i come across any that are upgrades (havent yet ) i`m sure i will try to get it. doubt i ever will but i am always looking .

Wayne8348

I really enjoy putting high end sets together so when I start a set I typically try and pick up all 9's up until a certain point and then starting adding 8's. This way I'm not having to resell so many 8's as I upgrade them. I think I was at about 70% in psa 9 before I started buying 8's for my 1974 set. I never add any 7's to my sets even as fillers. I don't consider them part of my collection and normally end up giving them away.

Wayne

mcastaldi

Around January 2001, I decided to build a PSA-graded 72T set and set a minimum allowable grade of PSA7 NQ. Pretty quickly I learned that PSA8s were more available and not much more than I was paying for PSA7s. At that point, I adoped a view like Topsgun - I wouldn't buy 8s but would accept them from my own submissions. I figured I trusted my own eye and any 7s I got back could just as easily have been 8s. By the summer of 2002 I'd reached 94% complete with a GPA of about 7.93 or so - then I decided to sell off what I'd built of the set in order to devote more time/money to my 75 set.

The 75 set was slightly different because PSA8s were less expensive than 72s and I was able to find them raw as well. So that set I've built with a minimum grade of PSA8 NQ - no exceptions. BUT - at the same time, I don't accept any card unless it meets MY standards for a NM/MT card. Every card has to be an example I would be proud to own. I figured if I did that, then there would be less pressure to upgrade for the sake of upgrading - and it could be done at a time and price I found acceptable. Right now I'm three cards short of completing the 75 set.

Then. . .I don't know what I was thinking in March of 2003, but I decided to make a second run at 72T. I had 40 or so PSA8-worthy raw cards, but was essentially starting from scratch. The prices for PSA8s was much more reasonable this time around. But. . .I also adopted a different philosophy in building the set this time. First, I'd be very aggressive on the toughest cards in the set. Then I'd bottom-feed everything else. I also set a goal to have a GPA of 8.10 - and again, every card had to be an example I'd be proud to own. For 72T, a GPA of 8.10 roughly translates into one PSA9 for every 8 PSA8 cards. This had a few implications in terms of philosophy -
1) Focus on the tough cards - once I got my hands on the tough cards, the remaining cards needed to finish the set should be much easier to get. As opposed to having your last 10 cards be the toughest ones in the set. By fighting your battles for the low-pop stuff as soon as possible, the battle to actually finish the set should be easier.
2) Bottom-feeding the commons - this has two HUGE factors. . .first, it ensures you don't overpay for the easy stuff - and second, because you haven't overpaid for those 8s, it's easier to justify upgrading them to 9s when the time and price is right. I have a lot less problem paying $30 for a PSA9 that upgrades my 8 if I only have $8 in the PSA8. But if I have $15-$20 in that PSA8, paying another $30 for the PSA9 becomes less attractive.
3) By seting a target GPA of 8.10, it also forces me to look for 9s - but at the same time I can achieve that 8.10 by just picking up the lower-cost PSA9s that come up.
4) In order to keep costs down, I think you really need to be out there beating the bushes looking for raw cards to submit yourself. I totally love the challenge of finding nice raw cards to add to my set. Anyone can sit back and wait for the cards to come to eBay - but with some of the vintage issues, there's a certain number of cards that just don't appear on eBay - ever. So then what do you do about those?

Right now, I'm almost 4 months into the second go-round with the 72 set - and I'm 54% complete @ 8.11 - AND - I've been able to pick up probably 80% of the toughest cards in the set. It's getting there.

Anyway. . .I'm not sure there's a wrong way to build a set - so long as it works for you. This is just the approach I've used.

Mike

Vargha

There are many determining factors, and budget certainly is a big one. Let me also add that the set can go a long way in determining when a PSA 7 is "appropriate". When I built my 1951 Bowman set in all PSA 8, there was a time when the rookie cards of Ford, Mantle and Mays were fine in PSA 7 at about $1K, $7K and $3k respectively. In PSA 8, those cards were about $5K, $18K and $8K respectively.

When one is collecting a set such as 1973 Topps, for example, where the highest cost PSA 9 card has an SMR of $1,025 and the population of 9's is almost 4,000 with many high quality examples still not submitted, a completely different strategy can be taken. (How's that for a run-on sentence?)

mcastaldi

David> That's certainly true. The fact that the normal-pop 72T PSA8 commons were half the price (or less) of what I was paying the first time was a HUGE factor in deciding to do the 72 set again.

Mike

mikeschmidt

For 1955 Bowman, I have always focused on the high-grade cards first -- and worried about completion later. No 1950s card is too hard to find in PSA 7. However, finding PSA 9's can be an extremely daunting challenge. I agree with David that the star cards can always be "fillers" of lower quality that are easily upgraded later. But when you see rare opportunities for commons in high grade, or low population commons, take advantage of those opportunities. They will be the ones that you will kick yourself in the rear down the road.

Especially with someone like Nolan Ryan -- I agree that sticking to PSA 9's is a great strategy. There are not too many cards of his that are hard to find in 9 or better. When his earlier cards become available in 9 -- take those opportunities. There will always be an abundance of Ryan cards in PSA 8 if you cannot find a 9...

gtbeaker

I generally go for high grade (highest grade if possible). Of course, I have to "settle" for a few cards which aren't top in pop, like the '71 Bench PSA 8 I just purchased. Eventually, I'd like to upgrade all my cards to top in pop, but for now I can settle for merely high grade examples.

GATOR5

Beaker,

And it's a real nice 8 at that. Thanks for the bid.

Matt

1954

When I made the 1964 Topps stand up set, I only purchased those that were PSA 8's. Then when I started with the more difficult sets; 1934 Batter ups, 1954 Wilson, 1971 Topps greatest Moments, and 1954 Dan dees I decided to build it in any grade. Interesting enough, I could dollar cost average my lower grade w/ the higher grade card by selling the lower grade for more money. Sometimes I would sell my PSa 5 for the same cost as what it cost me to purchase the PSA 8. It made collecting much more enjoyable and going to card shows more interesting.

1954

Does anyone have any 1934 Batter ups for sale?

Basilone

Personally...I like PSA 9's...but I also like the "action" of bidding on 8's on a daily basis. I may be addicted to receiving graded cards in the mail every day or so.....I doubt that I'm the only one though. My limits are PSA 8 or better for 1950's-1971....and PSA 9 or better (if available) for 1972-1979. Since the 1970's sets are so huge...I mainly look for specific teams or players.




John

Wabittwax

The only set I am actively making is a modern football set that only has 30 of each card produced so the grade doesn't really matter much to me. I have a PSA 5 in my set that I'm happy to have because I may never find another one. That doesn't pertain much to vintage sets though. I think completion percentage is far more impressive than GPA. Each set you go through on the Registry, you always find those people near the bottom that have like 3%-10% done and really at that point, it's just taking up space on my monitor. I think a set at 80% done 7.5 GPA is much nicer than 20% done at 8.5 GPA. As an onlooker, it just looks like a more of a real effort to complete the set. I've debated on doing a 1952 Topps set just for kicks but I wouldn't put any limit on the grade, I would just upgrade as I go when I find the right price. Setting minimum grades I think causes many people to overpay for cards. Besides many many 7's look just like or better than many 8's so really your just paying for the holder and not the set itself.

sjeanblanc

As a listed member of the Nolan Ryan Master set, here's my take on at least the "Player" set type. The "Player" set type is a little different from the standard set from a company because so many other obscure cards are part of the set. Its more like a scavanger hunt than anything else.

1) If a card is very tough to find period, take it in any grade because you may not see it again. Examples in the Nolan Ryan Master set would be OPC cards from 1976 or earlier, the 74 Deckle Edge, or certain low population high grade 70's Topps Cards. The 1975 and 1978 Topps Nolan Ryan's would be good examples to take in grade 8 and wait for a 9 to show up later.

2) If no card has been graded higher than the grade that is currently available, there are several of the OPC's that haven't been graded higher than a Near Mint - Mint 8 and some others not even that high.

3) If a card has high grade populations say greater than 15, wait for one to show up and don't waste money on a lower grade.

4) Know your fellow collectors. There are usually several aggresive collector's in each set category and they will tend to jump good cards that show themselves in those categories. This can make it an expensive proposition to try and get in the middle of a bidding war, sometimes its better to pass on a situation like that and pickup the same card later for a lot less money.

5) Find as many raw cards as you can and have them graded yourself, it sometimes seems like a lot of money to spend, but it beats waiting for cards that a dealer would never grade because of a lack of profit margin or spending more money for a card at auction than you would cost to grade a raw card.

These are the rules I have used so far in my quest to complete the Nolan Ryan Master set, which is only a little better than half way complete.

Alfiewt

For me I would say it's a mix of both. My goal for all of my sets are to get the best cards that I can find and afford. I know I won't always be able to find the highest graded example of each card, so I set a minimum grade and if if I can find an upgrade at a reasonable price later, I get it. I also look harder to upgrade cards that I have that I think are low end for the grade.

Mitochondria

Agree with others who say that you must set your goals clearly before you begin. The average grade you set is going to depend on 2 factors. The first is the expected yearly budget towards the project. Second, how patient you are willing to be in finishing the set. If you want to complete a set in a few years, your yearly budget will need to be higher because of the amount of cards you will need to obtain in a relatively short time. In addition, good specimens enter the market less frequently than lower grade examples. As a result, your ability to find nice cards in such a short period of time will be difficult.

If you decide to complete a set over 5 years compared to 2 years, then the probability of finding higher grade cards will be greater and you will have more collective purchasing power over a 5 year period than over 2 years. Furthermore, the chances of overpaying for commons whose population explodes will be diminshed. I also agree with mcastaldi in that it makes the pursuit more enjoyable if you seek raw cards yourself. Not only will you save money in submitting cards yourself, but your knowledge about scarcities of a particularly set will increase. As a result, you'll be a more informed consumer in regards to a given set due to this experience and you won't be swayed by outlandish claims of how "rare" certain cards are in a set that you focus on.

My two cents,

Ron