Crossover depression

ejguru

Just got back my 1st crossover group (in holders) and have to share my sad results.
Invoice # 4041391. These were all SGC's except the last was an FGS 10 (that cost me $6).
It can't be good if 3 of 19 can't make a straight crossover. I think I'm going back to the old self-breakout/submit method. Anyone else less than thrilled with the experience?

EJ

ejguru

Almost forgot my second crossover invoice:
# 4071655. The Brock was another FGS 10 job--gotta love them!

Of the others, 2 SGC's 92's crossed as 8's and the other 2 didn't crossover straight. Again, I can live with 92's turning into 8's, but ALL THE TIME? So of the 5 SGC 88's, I get 3 PSA 8's back. The sad part is that I must have AT LEAST 50-100 cards whose label says PSA 8, but the cards would get PSA 6 if submitted today. I'm sure if I brought one of those dog ears in seeking a refund, I'd be sent on my way convinced it really is worthy of an 8, without the refund.

toppsgun

I've always been a "self-breakout/submitter" myself, but on my last invoice (March'03), I threw in two SGC cards at the bottom of complimentary invoice (PSA submission vouchers). I included a note "OK to crackout" and they did so. Both '67 Topps BB. SGC 88 Wickersham and SGC 96 Atlanta Aces both crossed to MINT 9.

Based upon your post and my results, I think I'll retire undefeated and unscored upon. I'll forever be a "self-breakout/submit" kinda collector.

ejguru

Michael: Are you slipping the graders juju beans or something? That's pretty sweet. I am even more convinced that is is "just me" that gets scrooged! Ahh paranoia!

toppsgun

Far from it. The rest of that comp invoice was exactly what I paid for it. Zedro. Mostly five's, sixes and qualifiers, but they were all raw submissions of a few '61s I tried to sneak by the graders. Guess the garbage made my two crossovers look good.

...hey?? I may be onto something. I feel a theory coming on.

srs1a

ejguru,

I don' t think you should be in a cross-over funk -- almost 85% of the first invoice crossed, which isn't bad at all. As you know, my 68's are taking a similar voyage as yours, but in reverse.

And , I think you are right -- time is a big wildcard and, in general, a brutal punisher. I would expect that all of your SGC cards were in their newer holders to cross this well.

I think that the moral to the in-holder x-over story is that PSA is tougher than SGC which is tougher than GAI which is tougher than PSA...and on and on. What a business!

Wabittwax

Toppsgun, I try to use that theory all the time. If I have a nice card that has a shot at a 9, I'll submit another one of the same card with it that is a real solid 8 but probably won't get a 9. I figure that if they put an 8 on one of them then they might put a 9 on the nicer one since they aren't the same quality. A lot of times it will result in 2 8's though so I don't know how effective that method is, but it doesn't hurt to try. Sometimes I'll get 9's. Also when I submit modern cards, I will submit them on a bulk modern invoice with about the first 75 cards being cards from the 70's and all the modern cards being at the end of the invoice. I figure after the grader seeing all the flaws that are common with older stuff, the new stuff looks pretty good. I do get a lot 10's that way. It might just be because I'm getting a better eye though so I don't know how effective that method is also.

FB

EJ,

What does the M/G stand for on the invoice? Thats not a set of initials that I recognize.

sjjs28

My first step into the cross-over river was successful.
four cards attempted (my invoice #4070372)

1968 Carlton - SGC96 to PSA 9
1961 Golden Press Traynor - SGC96 to PSA 9
1951 BlueBack Ashburn - SGC88 to PSA 8
1963 Mantle - SGC88 to PSA 8


I'm ready to play again!

sjjs28

Frank - those initials stand for (M)inimum (G)rade.

They are provided when you ask to crossover another venders card to the corresponding PSA Grade
(ie SGC 96 to PSA 9) and PSA felt that the card didn't merit the 9 holder.......

They won't bust the card out of the holder and put it in an "8" holder - so they provide a M/G

FB

Aaaahhh... makes sense.

Thanks Steve.

waitilltheytrytosell

The secret to a successful crossover is to "Buy the card, not the holder". A large percentage of the cards in other holders were put there by submitters looking to maximize the apparent grade and/or value of cards on the edge. A small percentage of the cards in other holders were put there because the submitter didn't know any better. They weren't aware that any one grading company was any better, and didn't know or care about the grade and/or value of the card. What does this mean? To one extreme you have PRO. It means that there are some perfectly fine cards in PRO holders out there. It also means you have to wade through a whole lot of garbage to find them. If you buy them from the "professional submitter" you will lose "money" crossover attempts 100% of the time. If you very carefully hand select cards from the "novice submitter", based on your abilities, you will be much more successful. To the other extreme you have cards in SGC, GAI, and BVG&S type of holders which are going to contain a much higher percentage of cards that you will do much better on when trying to cross them over. Again, it matters a great deal about who you are buying the cards from. Are you buying the cards from a guy who knows that the PD or OC won't fly with PSA, so the grades will be better elsewhere, or are you buying them from a guy who just likes one of the other companies better. They all look at things a little differently when grading. If you just go out and buy the first hundred SGC 88's and 92's that you can find on Ebay, and submit them for crossover, you will get hammered on the crossover attempt. If you select your 88's and 92's very carefully based on high quality scans or seeing the cards in person, and you are very good at knowing what PSA wants to see, then you will do very well. A lot of the cards are on the edge. The same would go if you were looking to crossover 88's to 92's. Pick the bad 88's, you get hammered. Pick the good 88's, you'll do well.

murcerfan

invoice 4013369
all well centered sgc 88's except one that was a nice sgc 92.
Not a slider among them.
Funny how the stars never seem good enough. The Kilmer I thought could go 9.
The Karras is much nicer than the 8 they just sent back to me last month.
I honestly have come to expect this kind of result and it is the main reason i am submitting fewer and fewer cards. SGC is grading so harshly I am reluctant to send anything over there either.

These 8's do move my #1 set forward a couple hundredths of a point though

ejguru

Steve: Thanks for reminding me that maybe "it is just me."

Murcerfan: Thanks for supporting the theory that "it isn't just me."

All good points WTTTTS. Totally agree. I usually try to use my good eye before crossovers, but couldn't prescreen many of these recent submits. Hopefully I can find a few SGC set builders (besides SRS) that can use these cards.

EJ

seinbigd

Crossover Satisfaction!

Sent 2 1962 Topps GAI-8s in on 05-01-03. Grades were posted today (05-22-03) which crossed over to PSA-8s just fine.

Invoice #8034606.