Conspiracy theory? auction vs. pop reports
DMWJR
Posts: 6,011 ✭✭✭✭✭
Interesting fact pattern, even if you don't collect Proof Roosevelts.
I have a Proof Roosevelt Registry Set, so I watch the pop reports and update my spreadsheets so I can see where the submittals are for each month.
There has been a 1999-S PR70DC SILVER Roosevelt pop 1/0 on the pop reports for some time.
It was on Heritage's On-line Tuesday auction (5/13/03), Lot No. 11197
I watched as the price hovered around $725.00 until the last few minutes. I really wanted the coin, so I waited until about one minute left in the auction. I bid an extra stiff $1,500 because I didn't want to lose it over a $25 dollar bid increment, and I didn't think anyone would be so bold as to bid that high for the coin.
When I placed the bid, the confirmation came back that I had been outbid. By the time I got the page back up the auction was closed at $3,565!!!!!! AN UNBELIEVABLE PRICE!!!!!!!! I just had trouble shaking it off. I reviewed the pop reports on-line to see what other pop 1 coins were out there. Just this one and two other dates.
Then, one day later, I'm looking at buying a couple of different PR70DC coins. This dealer says he had a 1999-S PR70DC SILVER dime pop 1/0 that I might be interested in. I was shocked that I just saw it for sale the night before, and figured he picked it up.
I checked the pop report again and low and behold, the coin was suddenly a pop 2/0 -- the day after the Heritage auction.
I can't seem to make heads or tails of this set of facts. Any opinions???
I have a Proof Roosevelt Registry Set, so I watch the pop reports and update my spreadsheets so I can see where the submittals are for each month.
There has been a 1999-S PR70DC SILVER Roosevelt pop 1/0 on the pop reports for some time.
It was on Heritage's On-line Tuesday auction (5/13/03), Lot No. 11197
I watched as the price hovered around $725.00 until the last few minutes. I really wanted the coin, so I waited until about one minute left in the auction. I bid an extra stiff $1,500 because I didn't want to lose it over a $25 dollar bid increment, and I didn't think anyone would be so bold as to bid that high for the coin.
When I placed the bid, the confirmation came back that I had been outbid. By the time I got the page back up the auction was closed at $3,565!!!!!! AN UNBELIEVABLE PRICE!!!!!!!! I just had trouble shaking it off. I reviewed the pop reports on-line to see what other pop 1 coins were out there. Just this one and two other dates.
Then, one day later, I'm looking at buying a couple of different PR70DC coins. This dealer says he had a 1999-S PR70DC SILVER dime pop 1/0 that I might be interested in. I was shocked that I just saw it for sale the night before, and figured he picked it up.
I checked the pop report again and low and behold, the coin was suddenly a pop 2/0 -- the day after the Heritage auction.
I can't seem to make heads or tails of this set of facts. Any opinions???
Doug
0
Comments
It's the first thing that "pop"ped in to my head when I was reading the thread over in the registry forum.
Russ, NCNE
William S. Burroughs, Cities of the Red Night
Coin Junkie
cameoproofcoins.com
al h.
Second, the only thing that can be made of this story in my mind, is that the consignor of the Heritage coin had a very high reserve and someone bid "moon money" expecting to win the coin for far less (perhaps $1600) and had to outbid the reserve. If this was the case, there is obviously nothing wrong with the situation, as the consignor is entitled to reserve his coin for any amount he choses. Simpy, someone "chased" the reserve, if my theory is right.
Which brings up an interesting question - if someone was willing to spend more than $3500 on a 1999 proof Roosie the other night, where was this person 2 weeks ago when really cool PR70 Roosies from the 1970's and 80's commanded (in some cases) less than $500 for "low pop" specimens in the Heritage Signature sale? Bizarre.
Wondercoin
Here's another one.
Stokely discovered when he prepared his Roosevelt's for auction that the 1975-s PR70DC that was a pop 1/0 was actually a 1977 lurking in a 75 holder. Boy was he surprised. Anyway he sent it back to PCGS to correct. I was watching the pop reports to see when his coin was taken out of the mix so that the total registry score possible would be lower -- now that there was no such thing as a 75-s PR70DC. Then all of a sudden the pop report for the 75-s went to 2/0 for three days. I couldn't believe it. I continued pulling it up (because I am obviously have a coin version of obsessive/compulsive disorder). Then the pop went back to 1/0 !!!!!!
Is there a 1975-s PR70DC out there or not??????? No one has put it in a set yet.
<< <i>I continued pulling it up (because I am obviously have a coin version of obsessive/compulsive disorder). >>
You're not alone.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Doug: First, be pleased you "dodged a bullet".
Second, the only thing that can be made of this story in my mind, is that the consignor of the Heritage coin had a very high reserve and someone bid "moon money" expecting to win the coin for far less (perhaps $1600) and had to outbid the reserve. If this was the case, there is obviously nothing wrong with the situation, as the consignor is entitled to reserve his coin for any amount he choses. Simpy, someone "chased" the reserve, if my theory is right.
Which brings up an interesting question - if someone was willing to spend more than $3500 on a 1999 proof Roosie the other night, where was this person 2 weeks ago when really cool PR70 Roosies from the 1970's and 80's commanded (in some cases) less than $500 for "low pop" specimens in the Heritage Signature sale? Bizarre.
Wondercoin >>
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Come on Mitch. Isn't it obvious?! The 1999 was SILVER. Everyone knows those 70's and 80's PR70DCAMS are CLAD. ::Yeck::
peacockcoins
1999 PF70DCAM dime on ebay
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Russ, NCNE
Wondercoin
BTW:
Heritage auction coin slab ID: 2711245
Coin-Slinger coin slab ID: 71654709
Two different coins.
Pop number changed on 5/14/03.
On the same day, both coins were in seller's hands, as pictures of both were on the internet. Why did the pop report post so slowly? I sent my Registry sets in on 4/21 for FB designation. I don't have the coins, and the invoice hasn't posted . . . but the coins have hit my registry set and the pop reports.
I'm not pointing fingers, but I have a hard time reconciling all of these variancies.
hey lava
you'd be sleeping!!
al h.
<< <i>What the heck am I missing. As many of these buggers as there probably are sitting around untouched and in pristine condition, isn't it very possible the pop 70 of some of these would be in the two or three digits in the years to come? Show me an ms70 morgan silver dollar and I'll be excited. >>
These coins are being collected because they are fun more than that
they are in plastic or that the numbers in plastic are low. Yes, it's true
that many are sold in the plastic and it's true that many will end up in
the registry. Increasing prices, ego, plastic, etc are not the only reasons
to collect 99-S silver dimes. Even if pops go higher the coins remain beau-
tiful, familiar, and difficult to find in high grade (in this case MS-70). They
make an excellent and affordable collectable for many.
As to how high the pops on these may go, you'll need to ask someone
who is familiar with them and their grading. There are many moderns
which haven't been submitted in large numbers yet and many where the
numbers are unlikely to change much in the future.
Time will tell. And...