1999 Silver Roosevelt PR70DCAM - $3565

relayer

99 Silver Rosie

Somebody is very happy with their submission

itsnotjustme

Dough!

Stooge

I sent White Fang an e-mail telling him that the coin was for sale from Heritage, but I never thought that it would sell for $3500+.

WOW

Paul B. Gunsallus

Russ

PCGS pop of 1, NGC pop of 46. The buyer probably could have had an NGC coin for $100.

Russ, NCNE

IrishMike

Russ, you must of been reading my mind, that was my first reaction too. The registry beat goes on.

Edited to add: The last two that sold at Teletrade a year ago were in the $70-$85 range.

Russ

I was watching a couple coins on Teletrade the other night, both 2002-W $5 Proof Gold Eagles. One was a PCGS PR70DCAM, the other an NGC PR70UCAM. The NGC got bid to $200 and didn't sell, the PCGS closed at $2200.

Interesting market.

Russ, NCNE

wondercoin

Having just sat through the PCGS-PR70 Roosie collection in St Louis, my 2 cents is this:

1. The winner of this coin simply wanted to fill the "pop 1" hole right now. Obviously, the winner is not a collector on a tight budget. He/she has discretionary income to spend and chose to spend it to purchase that particular coin.

2. If and when a few more get graded, it is very likely, IMHO, that the price level "corrects" to where they were in the Heritage sale for low pop dimes. The next one could sell for 1/2 -3/4 that amount IMHO. Or, PCGS might never grade another and the dime could go up from here?

3. This sale tends to support my conclusion last week that the #1 Roosie proof set did sell "softer" than I thought it would at recent auction.

4. My Summer vacation with the family to Hawaii could be cheaper than I first thought - just 2 proof ulta-modern dimes could get me there

Wondercoin

MoneyLA

I agree with Mitch's (wondercoin's) opinions on the market. Let me add another: Instead of buying that proof Roosie I could have a long weekend at Caesars playing at a $10 min dice table for about 12 hours and still have plenty of cash left over to pick up a few new suits at Bernini and a few nice purses for my gal at Fendi from the Forum Shops.

Now, which would give you more pleasure with your discretionary income? One coin that would no doubt reside in a safe deposit box at a bank, or a fun weekend with nice trinkets to take home with you and enjoy for weeks to come? Not to mention the comps you would earn for your 12 hours of play that would result in a free weekend (room, food, beverage) plus airport limo on the next visit?

Hmmm.... somehow the old days of coin collecting with snapping Lincs out of circ into blue Whitman folders is starting to appeal to me again.

cheers, alan mendelson

IrishMike

Alan you could have purchased the NGC coin and done both. Mitch it's no wonder that dealers hawk their PCGS coins in here, there is a little more mark up on the PCGS coin. You would have to go to beautiful downtown Burbank rather than Maui if you were selling the same coin in an NGC slab, assuming the PCGS coin would cross over at the same grade.

Hoytogle

Mitch the buyer could have saved $1300 and bought the pop 1 02 from David Hall for $2250 The other dime last night a 95 silver PCGS PR70DCAM a pop 7 coin sold for $483.00. As a buyer on these dimes I like to see the prices nice and low. I really can't believe how low these dimes are selling for the pops are very low and in the last couple of months it seems a good number have been on the market. Everyone keep buying those halves and quarters leaves the dimes to me

braddick

Well, until PCGS makes another one, it's just a game on what we would do with the cash upon completion of a sale.

Also, the coin hasn't stuck yet.
We might see it's return on Teletrade in about five weeks. . .

MoneyLA

IrishMike wrote: "Alan you could have purchased the NGC coin and done both."

True, but the NGC coin would not get the ranking in the PCGS registry AND there is only a slim chance that the NGC coin would cross. To return to my Las Vegas theme, betting on an NGC cross has worse odds than a passline bet in dice.

Hence, the registry/price craziness continues.

cheers, alan mendelson

IrishMike

Alan you misread my post, I meant you could cross the PCGS to NGC not the other way around. You'd then have an eighty dollar coin. You missed my tongue in cheek.

wondercoin

"The other dime last night a 95 silver PCGS PR70DCAM a pop 7 coin sold for $483.00"

Hoyt: My point exactly. And, IMHO, THE 95 SILVER DIME IS AS COOL A COIN AS THE 99!!

IrishMike: I think you have it backwards. THESE ARE THE VERY TYPE OF COINS THAT ARE NOT "HAWKED" HERE ON THE BOARDS. Why would anyone offer such a coin here? Do you think the coin would have fetched $3500 here? Nope, that is the type of coin well suited for public auction IMHO.

Wondercoin

Hoytogle

Looks like the coin is now a pop 2

IrishMike

Wondercoin, whether it's hawked on this board or on Heritage is irrelevant to my point. You could spend way less on the same coin if it had been sent to NGC instead, assuming that NGC would have graded it a 70 PF DCAM. I realize there is no guarantee they would grade it a 70. The value is supported by slab. Obviously this collector prefers it in a PCGS slab. All I was pointing out is the wide disparity in prices. I am sure if you were offered sight unseen an NGC and PCGS coin, you would assume you would make a larger commission on the PCGS coin. (because you practiced law let me throw in the caveat you can't crack them out, you have to resell them in the original slab).

wondercoin

IrishMike: I understand. The PCGS Registry vis a vis Proof70 material, like this Roosie, is a developed market - there are folks only too happy to pay thousands of dollars for myriad PR70 coins. And, to many folks surprise, these buyers have done surprising well when they elect to sell of their collections. Meanwhile, the NGC market is, obviously, not there (yet). Folks are reluctant to pay, in some cases, more than $100 or so for a variety of PR70 coins that often realize heavy multiples of that amount in a PCGS holder.

To some collectors it might make perfect sense to "cherry pick" those NGC specimens (say $100-$200 coins) that would possibly grade PR70 at PCGS as well, for a fraction of the PCGS price. To other collectors, it might make sense to buy an original proof set for $10 with all 5 coins in the set and be happy with $2/coin for nice raw specimens. Others love the PCGS product, especially with the resale market the way it has been. To each, is own

Wondercoin

MoneyLA

Wondercoin wrote: "To some collectors it might make perfect sense to "cherry pick" those NGC specimens (say $100-$200 coins) that would possibly grade PR70 at PCGS as well, for a fraction of the PCGS price."

Mitch, this is indeed the only way to play the game with NGC coins. Frankly, we know that only a fraction of NGC coins can cross to PCGS and you are correct when you observe that the NGC coins do not have the price of PCGS coins and this, Im afraid, is because NGC standards are not as high as PCGS standards.

It will be interesting to see if this "market condition" changes and if NGC tightens its grading standards.

Until then, NGC coins will trade at a discount to PCGS coins, and the lucky cherry picker will be just that -- lucky to find a coin that will cross.

cheers, alan mendelson

wondercoin

Alan: Speaking of crosses, didn't you have a 1936 proof quarter you were excited about? What became of that?

Wondercoin

MoneyLA

Funny you should mention that... yes, it is at PCGS for crossover service along with another rainbow toned ngc washington proof and Im waiting.... cheers, alan mendelson

DMWJR

White Fang here. I didn't realize that this thread was going on here on the Registry page when I posted the following on the Coin board.

Interesting fact pattern, even if you don't collect Proof Roosevelts.

I have a Proof Roosevelt Registry Set, so I watch the pop reports and update my spreadsheets so I can see where the submittals are for each month.

There has been a 1999-S PR70DC SILVER Roosevelt pop 1/0 on the pop reports for some time.

It was on Heritage's On-line Tuesday auction (5/13/03), Lot No. 11197

I watched as the price hovered around $725.00 until the last few minutes. I really wanted the coin, so I waited until about one minute left in the auction. I bid an extra stiff $1,500 because I didn't want to lose it over a $25 dollar bid increment, and I didn't think anyone would be so bold as to bid that high for the coin.

When I placed the bid, the confirmation came back that I had been outbid. By the time I got the page back up the auction was closed at $3,565!!!!!! AN UNBELIEVABLE PRICE!!!!!!!! I just had trouble shaking it off. I reviewed the pop reports on-line to see what other pop 1 coins were out there. Just this one and two other dates.

Then, one day later, I'm looking at buying a couple of different PR70DC coins. This dealer says he had a 1999-S PR70DC SILVER dime pop 1/0 that I might be interested in. I was shocked that I just saw it for sale the night before, and figured he picked it up.

I checked the pop report again and low and behold, the coin was suddenly a pop 2/0 -- the day after the Heritage auction.

I can't seem to make heads or tails of this set of facts. Any opinions???

MoneyLA

Bottom line for this discussion is that the "low pop coin game" can be hazardous to your wealth.

Mitch: the 1936 proof crossed as a PR65, and there is a separate thread on this.

cheers, alan mendelson

tompkins

<< <i>I checked the pop report again and low and behold, the coin was suddenly a pop 2/0 -- the day after the Heritage auction. >>

Pop2 Roosevelt dime
And I assume this coin is the new pop 2. It will be interesting to see how high this one gets.

Pete

DMWJR

Don't look now, but that second 99-s is already up to $2,650 . . . and the reserve hasn't been met yet . . . .

(Note to self: maybe it is time to sell my Proof Roosies???)

moosesr

Someone mentioned crossing a NGC Proof 70 UltraCam coin to PCGS. Is anyone aware of this ever happening?

Thanks,
Charlie