BANNER ADS - AT PSA!!!!

mcastaldi · May 12, 2003 9:57AM

I was just getting ready to leave work, but figured I'd pop onto PSA's web site and check the boards before I hit the road. I was totally shocked to see a BANNER AD on PSA's main page. I know many sites do this, but was hoping PSA wouldn't stoop to cluttering their web site with tacky advertising banners. Is the balance sheet so bad at PSA that they need to start using their web site as an advertising-driven revenue stream? I surely hope not. If they need an additional revenue stream, why not adjust the prices for submissions so that they more accurately reflect the value of PSA-graded cards on the secondary market? When sellers have a hard time getting $6-$8 for already-graded 70s and later commons, they're NOT going to beat down the door to pay $6-$7 grading fees (and those are bulk prices, mind you).

I can't help but wonder what's next. Selling naming rights to various PSA services? I can see it now - "Welcome to the PSA Population Report - brought to you by Depends". . .or. . .the "Taco Bell PSA Set Registry". . .maybe the "Sharpie/James Spence Autograph Guide"

C'mon PSA!! We get inundated with web-based advertising ad every other site we go to. Why here? Quite frankly, I don't give a rat's arse what's being advertised, I would prefer they go away.

Mike

RayBShotz · May 12, 2003 10:05AM

Good Grief!!!
RayB69Topps

Vargha · May 12, 2003 10:08AM

It's a business. I have no issue with banner ads on a web site any more than I do with commercials on television.

mcastaldi · May 12, 2003 10:28AM

David> I understand it's a business and raising funds is the name of the game. I guess selling banner advertising is easier and less painful than adjusting prices to a point where people would actually be encouraged to submit. For the years I collect, I don't know too many dealers who will submit commons anymore. They're not going to pay $7 per in grading fees when PSA8s are darned lucky to pull that when they go to sell. While there is potential upside with any 9s, the downside is just too great right now. I think most people would have preferred to see PSA try to drive revenue from increasing the submission numbers before selling tacky banner advertising. Right now, a bulk submission for me will hit me $700 worth (72T). PSA won't see a submission from me at that sort of pricing. If the price were in the $550-$600 ballpark, then they're getting a lot warmer. Assuming PSA has been at least marginally profitable on their previous Registry Specials, this wouldn't be unrealistic. I'm guessing I'm not alone in having cards stashed away waiting for the pricing to make more sense before sending off a submission.

I guess if the revenue from the banner ads allows them to adjust their submission pricing, then that's a different matter. But I won't be holding my breath.

Mike

zardoz51 · May 12, 2003 10:35AM

Relax Mike

Sooner or later, there WILL be a cheap registry special likely toward the end of the year.

As for the banner ads, well I do realize that it is a business, but IMHO, it's tacky. I don't see too many professional companies having ads on their website.

zardoz51 · May 12, 2003 10:50AM

Mike

Besides, if you keep raising a stink over WONDERFUL IDEAS like the banner ads, you just might see a special along the lines of "$4.75, any common any year, except 1972's". It will be known as the "Castaldi Special"

mcastaldi · May 12, 2003 11:45AM

Z> Looks like I picked the wrong week to sell off my 78s. . .

Mike

Wisker4570 · May 12, 2003 11:54AM

Mike,

I'm with you. Hate those D#$% banners almost as much as those piece o' s$%# pop-ups.

Vargha · May 12, 2003 12:12PM

Besides, if you keep raising a stink over WONDERFUL IDEAS like the banner ads, you just might see a special along the lines of "$4.75, any common any year, except 1972's". It will be known as the "Castaldi Special"

And it will be in pop-up format as well. Bean counters, rather than salespeople, are running CLCT, no doubt. When that happens, you can be assured that they will not try to increase revenues by lowering prices. They tend to only deal with static models.

mcastaldi · May 12, 2003 12:18PM

David> And that's really unfortunate. As someone who works in something of a niche industry, I think it's really important that if you're going to run a company serving a niche that you have to truly understand and evangelize that niche in order to be successful.

Mike

RobE · May 12, 2003 12:20PM

<<<For the years I collect, I don't know too many dealers who will submit commons anymore. They're not going to pay $7 per in grading fees when PSA8s are darned lucky to pull that when they go to sell. While there is potential upside with any 9s, the downside is just too great right now.>>>

I have a similar problem lately too, Mikey.However,if they need to advertise space on their websight and it creates monies that allow $5 specials then I have no problem with an auctionhouse pimping itself on the sight.Whoever they are they look like the Pitt's sales concept.

Sure beats a BCCG or SGM concept,at least the PSA concept of grading hasn't been compromised.

Basilone · May 12, 2003 12:29PM

I rarely go to the main page...so I could care less. There are no banners on the Set Registry, Online POP, and Online SMR pages......yet.

John

braves72078 · May 12, 2003 12:53PM

<< <i>I was just getting ready to leave work, but figured I'd pop onto PSA's web site and check the boards before I hit the road. I was totally shocked to see a BANNER AD on PSA's main page. I know many sites do this, but was hoping PSA wouldn't stoop to cluttering their web site with tacky advertising banners. Is the balance sheet so bad at PSA that they need to start using their web site as an advertising-driven revenue stream? I surely hope not. If they need an additional revenue stream, why not adjust the prices for submissions so that they more accurately reflect the value of PSA-graded cards on the secondary market? When sellers have a hard time getting $6-$8 for already-graded 70s and later commons, they're NOT going to beat down the door to pay $6-$7 grading fees (and those are bulk prices, mind you).

I can't help but wonder what's next. Selling naming rights to various PSA services? I can see it now - "Welcome to the PSA Population Report - brought to you by Depends". . .or. . .the "Taco Bell PSA Set Registry". . .maybe the "Sharpie/James Spence Autograph Guide"

C'mon PSA!! We get inundated with web-based advertising ad every other site we go to. Why here? Quite frankly, I don't give a rat's arse what's being advertised, I would prefer they go away.

Mike >>

Mike, I'm with you 100%. I have lots of cards that I would submit, but with the market as it is now, I can't make money on most 8"s at $7.00 for grading. Oh well, they will stay in the CSII's until another special comes along.

Braves

Basilone · May 12, 2003 12:57PM

<< <i>I have lots of cards that I would submit, but with the market as it is now, I can't make money on most 8"s at $7.00 for grading. >>

The problem is that you were not alone....all of those previous specials have flooded the market for many sets in PSA 8. Great for the collector...bad for the dealer long-term.

John

waitilltheytrytosell · May 13, 2003 3:32AM

I have lots of cards that I would submit, but with the market as it is now, I can't make money on most 8"s at $7.00 for grading.

Then I think more thought has to be put into IF you should be grading a lot of this newer stuff in the first place. Maybe some day the market will dictate the mass submission of 1¢ commons from say 1989 Topps, but the demand doesn't justify it now. Just because you might only be able to sell the stuff now for $1or $2, doesn't mean PSA needs to drop their price just so you can make money. Don't submit the stuff. I realize that with the hundreds of thousands of 5,000 count boxes full of this junk, it's quite an untapped market. At least a grading fee of $5 or $6 somewhat limits the lowliness of trash that people will send in to try to make a buck. It forces people to be a bit more particular, and give some thought as to what they send in. A collector submits only what he likes and cares about, and has less concern about the fee, and what the card is worth after grading. He is in it for the long haul. A guy submitting only to sell, doesn't care what he sends in, just as long as he can make a buck. If PSA lowered their fee to $2 or $3, you would see a whole lot more stuff being sent in that really has no business being submitted in this century. It's submitted only in the hope of making a buck. It will barely sell for $2 or $3 initially, and then crash as people realize that there is no end to the supply. Then people will be screaming for $1 grading, so they can make money. The stuff ends up in junk boxes for 2 for $1, and in my opinion, the image of PSA grading suffers. Some day, many years from now, it will be worth paying $5 or $6 to get today's junk graded. Leave it in the 5,000 count boxes until then.

Fuzz · May 13, 2003 4:31AM

The whole home page for PSA was already full of banner ads anyway. It was the grading specials, the registry and the like. Not it for a different company. So what?
Checked the financial statement listed on the company, they are not exactly raking in the $ to say the least. In fact, lost 153K last quarter (which is half of David Hall's listed salary).
There is some fixed cost to slabbing a card, they will not and should not do it as non-profit. It is offered at no-profit it will not be healthy for the company or the collectors. Submit what works, leave out what doesn't. I have always been a little amazed by how much even the later 70's stuff sells for not getting into the really new stuff that finds its way into slabs.
Seems the weak economy has had a bigger impact by people not having the $ to toss around and bid up the more common cards by starting into new areas. When the $ work out so that people can expand what they collect again, it will all straighten out.
Fuzz

Wabittwax · May 13, 2003 8:41AM

Rob, you're right with the 1980's. I still have 11,000+ 1980's from a vending case that I'm sure is loaded with 9's and 10's but with 9's selling for grading fees, it's not worth submitting anymore. It's too time consuming to find that one 10 per 500 cards. I'm sure it's the same for other years. I wonder what the market will be like in a couple years at the current trends. I'm guessing that you are going to see commons hold or increase their value because poeple are relunctant to submit them without a special and as more people build sets from each year, the demand will go up. Just a theory.

Virtualizard · May 13, 2003 8:53AM

<< <i> ... Just because you might only be able to sell the stuff now for $1or $2, doesn't mean PSA needs to drop their price just so you can make money. Don't submit the stuff. ... At least a grading fee of $5 or $6 somewhat limits the lowliness of trash that people will send in to try to make a buck. It forces people to be a bit more particular, and give some thought as to what they send in. A collector submits only what he likes and cares about, and has less concern about the fee, and what the card is worth after grading. He is in it for the long haul. A guy submitting only to sell, doesn't care what he sends in, just as long as he can make a buck. If PSA lowered their fee to $2 or $3, you would see a whole lot more stuff being sent in that really has no business being submitted in this century. It's submitted only in the hope of making a buck. It will barely sell for $2 or $3 initially, and then crash as people realize that there is no end to the supply. Then people will be screaming for $1 grading, so they can make money. >>

Waitill..

Great post. That's about all that needs to be said. I agree completely. I'd rather pay $6 or $7 per card and have my cards remain somewhat valuable (even though I'm not in it for the investment).

Think about it - at some point, if the grading fees are low enough, everything will be submitted. Every card will eventually be available in high grade and you're basically back to where you started before 3rd party grading - every card will be readily available in a high grade slab and the supply will exceed the demand (just like raw cards). This would devalue cards so much that nobody would have a need for grading.

Basically, I wouldn't expect to see another grading special like the ones we saw last year. If there is one, I'd jump on it right away. It's just not in PSA's best interest to offer ridiculously low cost grading.

JEB.

braves72078 · May 13, 2003 9:21AM

<< <i>I have lots of cards that I would submit, but with the market as it is now, I can't make money on most 8"s at $7.00 for grading.

Then I think more thought has to be put into IF you should be grading a lot of this newer stuff in the first place. Maybe some day the market will dictate the mass submission of 1¢ commons from say 1989 Topps, but the demand doesn't justify it now. Just because you might only be able to sell the stuff now for $1or $2, doesn't mean PSA needs to drop their price just so you can make money. Don't submit the stuff. I realize that with the hundreds of thousands of 5,000 count boxes full of this junk, it's quite an untapped market. At least a grading fee of $5 or $6 somewhat limits the lowliness of trash that people will send in to try to make a buck. It forces people to be a bit more particular, and give some thought as to what they send in. A collector submits only what he likes and cares about, and has less concern about the fee, and what the card is worth after grading. He is in it for the long haul. A guy submitting only to sell, doesn't care what he sends in, just as long as he can make a buck. If PSA lowered their fee to $2 or $3, you would see a whole lot more stuff being sent in that really has no business being submitted in this century. It's submitted only in the hope of making a buck. It will barely sell for $2 or $3 initially, and then crash as people realize that there is no end to the supply. Then people will be screaming for $1 grading, so they can make money. The stuff ends up in junk boxes for 2 for $1, and in my opinion, the image of PSA grading suffers. Some day, many years from now, it will be worth paying $5 or $6 to get today's junk graded. Leave it in the 5,000 count boxes until then. >>

I don't grade anything after 1979, so it's not only newer cards that lose money in the grading game.

Alfiewt · May 13, 2003 9:53AM

If PSA were to lower prices, it would just flood the market with 8's and there vaule would decrease even more. Then people will want even lower grading fees. I'm not sure if lowering grading fees would increase submissions enough to offset the less profit per card they will be making, and even if it did, it would only be for the short term. PSA need to find other ways to make money other then just grading cards because there is a finate amount of cards that are worth grading out there. Increasing submissions might be good for the short tem, but steady submissions and increasing revenue from other ways would be much better in the long term.

waitilltheytrytosell · May 13, 2003 10:01AM

When grading was pretty much $10.00 a card and up, people were pretty selective about what they sent in. It was rare that people would submit stuff just to dump on Ebay and hope they'd get their opener of $9.99. A true $10.00 PSA card was rare, $10.00 mistakes yes, but not cards submitted to sell for $10.00. As the grading price went down to around $8.00, the "quality" of submission suffered. Quality meaning less scrutiny over the type that of stuff that was previously sent in, and also a lower quality regarding the value of the kind of card that could now be sent in, meaning newer cards from the late 70's and 80's. As soon as you get into these years the supply of cards that COULD be sent in skyrockets. There was demand, but not nearly enough to require mass submissions from professional submitters. As demand was satisfied, there was such thing as $10.00 PSA cards, followed quickly by $9.99 Ebay dumping auctions. Then you got $5 and $6 submission fees out of PSA with the submitters then content with Ebay dumping at $4.99 and $5.99 to start. Whatever the new low fee, that's what people would flip them for, and figure their profit in the rare 9 or 10 low pop freak auction. A $3 grading fee will kill the $5 PSA graded card. Stop the insanity. Grading specials should be special, not routine. If it's not worth $6 or $7 to grade, then it's really probably not honestly worth $5 to grade. PSA shouldn't kill themselves trying to make it profitable for people to sell a $5 PSA card.

GATOR5 · May 13, 2003 10:16AM

If that being the case why doesn't psa run special or service just to have
your card labeled and slabbed and forget the grader for I really could care
less. I'm my own grader and seller and collector. But would this take away from the psa
authorized dealer for that would be the only reason they wouldn't do it.

For I would just like to have my cards slabbed to preserve and display

BANNER ADS - AT PSA!!!!

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