The registry dilemma
FC57Coins
Posts: 9,140 ✭
OK so, here's a dilemma for you. I have a Franklin registry set which most of you know - and from time to time, I like to upgrade. However, because of where the registry set now stands, upgrades are extremely illusive and expensive! So - here's the dilemma - over the past year I've found it much easier and enjoyable to collect less expensive Morgans that I've been able to pick up at very reasonable prices. SO now the problem. Over the past few weeks there have been certain Franklin upgrades that have become available - and hence the quandry - what to do - I can't go out and buy them because I'm not going to go into debt for the sake of the collection, so do I sell these Morgans that I've grown quite attached to? Or do I foresake Anna and go for the Frankies, even though some of these are real prizes in themselves? Whatcha think?
Frank
Frank
0
Comments
Jeremy
Pennies make dollars, and dollars make slabs!
....inflation must be kicking in again this dollar says spend by Dec. 31 2004!
Erik
Jade Rare Coin eBay Listings
I am one collector that can never sell a coin to upgrade to another. I just can't do it. Every coin I own has some value to me. I just can't part with them. I own a coin or two that are not the most outstanding eye appealing pieces, but I'll hang on to them anyway because I like them.
When faced with a similiar dilema, I go where my heart is and add/upgrade this collection. May have some seller's remorse in the short term, but in the long run I'm much happier putting my money into my favorite collection.
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
Here's another idea - if you can no longer feed your registry addiction, sell the Franklins, and collect something else you like without the registry in mind.
Just a quick question here. Do you folks never update or upgrade your personal collection ? If so is it for points or for your own satisfaction ? It just kills me every time someone brings up the points thing just because a person belongs to the Registry. I believe Frank is upgrading his coins because he wants the best he can possibly have within his series. Just because he belongs to the registry this does not make him a point chaser. Agree or Disagree ?
This was not posted to flame or put down your beliefs as everyone is entitled to thier opinion. It is IMO just a logical question. I will agree with both of you that there are Point Chasers out in the Registry group and that is sad. A person like Frank that has shown his complete devotation to his series just cannot be put in this afore mentioned group though.
Ken
<< <i>Jeremy said it well. The registry stuff was an incredible marketing idea for the plastic companies. It's sucked in lots of people and driven the cost of high-end plastic to absurd levels.
>>
I wrote an article on this- it's currently being reviewed at Numismatist.
Jeremy
Of course I upgrade my collection. As a matter of fact, I've spent quite a bit in the last year or two doing so. That will probably change when I feel more comfortable putting that money in the stock market .
Frank did say:
So - here's the dilemma - over the past year I've found it much easier and enjoyable to collect less expensive Morgans that I've been able to pick up at very reasonable prices.
To answer your question, I do believe he is a point chaser. He was the one that pointed out his current "problem" and that he's now in a "quandry." He wants to feed his addiction, but has the sense not to do so as it might place him in financial difficulty. He also said "I've found it much easier and enjoyable to collect less expensive Morgans..." the key word being enjoyable. That answers his own question!
Frank, hope you don't mind us talking about you, instead of to you, but just answering Ken's questions as I see it.
Have any of you rabid Franklin collectors taken even ONE coin to a coin shop to see if you can get even a REMOTE approximation of what you are paying?
I have collected Franklins before dealing in them and dealt in them and I have never met anyone who came in the shop willing to lay out any kind of money at all for a Franklin half dollar.
I could be wrong, but if I had significant money in Franklins, I think I would test the market in a GENERAL environment and not rely too strongly on a few who collect the series for BIG money.
Just a thought.
I had a similar delimma with my Proof Kennedys. when I looked at the top sets and saw that one of them has 34 Proof 70 coins, I decided that I could never invest what it took to make my set excel. I have since nearly completed my Morgan set and a Washington set from 32 to 64 in BU or better. This has worked very well for me.
My 2 cents worth.
<< <i>Have any of you rabid Franklin collectors taken even ONE coin to a coin shop to see if you can get even a REMOTE approximation of what you are paying? >>
as if thats the one venue open to get some resale value back. duh... I sell some myself personally and also have sent some to auction that has brought very nice returns. You could make that same blanket statement about any modern coin denomination in the registrys.
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
What's the real harm in "temporarily" going into debt to get the coins you want/need NOW? Interest rates are the lowest they've been in what........30-40 years? A home equity loan at 6% or so, or maybe a refinance to get some cash out.......no biggie at these rates!
Heck......i even have a local coin dealer who gave me a $12,000 coin equity loan on my PCGS MS64 1907 High Relief St. Guadens $20 at pretty reasonable rates that enabled me to buy my 1795 AU58 Flowing Hair half dime AND my 1937-D 3-legged MS64 rainbow toned Buffalo. I couldn't have swung them otherwise and the payments are managable and the joy of ownership..............."PRICELESS"
Maybe a similiar arrangement might be available to you.......
You won't mind the debt if it's managable and you get some great coins you would lose otherwise.........can't say the same if you miss them and regret the choice for a long time.
<< <i>OK so, here's a dilemma for you. I have a Franklin registry set which most of you know - and from time to time, I like to upgrade. However, because of where the registry set now stands, upgrades are extremely illusive and expensive! So - here's the dilemma - over the past year I've found it much easier and enjoyable to collect less expensive Morgans that I've been able to pick up at very reasonable prices. SO now the problem. Over the past few weeks there have been certain Franklin upgrades that have become available - and hence the quandry - what to do - I can't go out and buy them because I'm not going to go into debt for the sake of the collection, so do I sell these Morgans that I've grown quite attached to? Or do I foresake Anna and go for the Frankies, even though some of these are real prizes in themselves? Whatcha think?
Frank >>
Once again resides with Legend, the original purchaser "raw" at live Eliasberg auction. Laura and i "love" the same lady!
<< <i>as if thats the one venue open to get some resale value back >>
Right on, Lucy! I'd never take a Franklin to a coin shop because it won't get top dollar. It's just not the right venue for that coin. Anyways, on to Frank's question. Frank, I don't think you're the type to spend a lot of money without thinking about it first, hence the questions you're asking. Upgrade your Franklins or keep your Morgans? Tough decision, since you like both series. I would say upgrade your Franklins because your less expensive Morgans should be easier to replace. I say should, because I don't know exactly what you have. When a special coin comes along, isn't it sad that you have to pass it up, because you don't have the funds? Eliminate that possibility by freeing up some cash.
If you're a "plastic" man, then you'd spend every dollar you have to get upgrades, putting quality aside for higher grades. That's just not what collecting coins is all about. It's about passion and perserverance and patience and finding the right coin. Participate in the registry because you enjoy it, and because the competition will drive you to build a better set. Then build the best set you can, and if your set has eye appealing coins, guess what? People will want to buy them because they're nice, not just because they're high grade. And if other people really like your coins, then that's the ultimate compliment.
I believe that whatever you decide to do, is the right thing.
The nice thing about your predicament, is the fact that if you
do nothing at all, time itself will solve your problem. We collectors get
very attached to our coins, regardless of their value or lack thereof.
Doing nothing is an action, in this case, as effective as doing something,
in resolving the dilemma. The little bear
Camelot
I have some ideas of where to go from here, but if any of you have any suggestions I'd be more than glad to listen!
Frank
<< <i>I do believe that my reason for upgrading is not for the sake of the registry, as much as to build the best set of Franklins that I can. >>
I think you're on the right track, Frank!
You're doing it right. It's a hobby. I get a real chuckle out of the posts about "not burying yourself in a coin", or "try to sell just one to a dealer and see what they bring". Ask David Hall what dollar volume DHRC has done with the series, or R&I, or half-dozen other modern dealers. Then for fun, go browse Teletrade or Heritage and see if the 50 participants in the registry are really responsible for purchasing all of the coins sold for $200+. There were over 1,000 Franklins sold on TT alone in the last 120 days in grades of 65 and better in NGC/PCGS holders. Imagine how many were sold in the few past year at all auctions! It seems incredible to many that there really is a whole segment of the market that could enjoy and collect the cream of the crop for any modern series, but it seems many do. It seems many collectors enjoy building complete sets of higher-grade coins if they are affordable. Go figure. Try and explain Lincolns. Is the 09-S VDB rare? Seems collector demand makes it relatively expensive, yet it is understood that many really enjoy the series.
I related collecting to golf, my other obsession here once. I estimate spending around $400 per month in green fees, $1,000 per year on equipment, and lots of gas, balls, and misc junk I believe I might need, not counting the occasional vacation package. It probably costs $8,000 per year, and has for the last 15 years. All I have to show for it is a 10 handicap, and some pleasant memories. Napkin math tells me that is about $120,000. Does that make the Franklins more reasonable!
Collect what you like, and because you like them. In the end, that is the only strategy that matters, unless coins are more business than hobby. BTW - I'd give you the same advice if you collected Chain cents. Buy coins you like, and below the current market whenever possible. Put them away for your grandkids because they are significant to you. Do it because it's your hobby. Trying to predict the future of the coin market is rarely sucessful, but building a beautiful collection usually is.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
Yes, collect whatever you like and for whatever reasons you have. This isn't to
say there can't be bad reasons for doing good things, but this is a hobby and en-
joyment is really the only goal. There is absolutely nothing wrong with desiring to
have the best possible. If you feel this strongly then it logically follows that you have
to collect something within your budget. If your interest is two cent pieces or English
decimal coins then collect that in the highest grade and have fun. If I desired to collect
Franklins in the highest possible grade just so I could blow the registry participants out
of the water with graded slabs then that is what I would do, and simultaneously I might
examine why I should derive enjoyment from such activity and see if it might be a trait
to be changed.
Just as there is nothing wrong with desiring having the best quality coins, there is nothing
wrong with having the rarest, or the most eye appealing, or the oldest, or the most common,
or one from each type, country, mint, era, region, island, year, or any other way your mind
might organize a collection. We have people here who collect the lowest grade, and just
about anything else. There's no need to agonize over it, just try to decide if switching will
increase your enjoyment. Then if you still can't decide sell your least favorite coin or a dupli-
cate and buy something which might fit whatever new direction you are considering. You'll
know if it was a mistake or not.
Just look at your budget and say to yourself what can I buy without agonizing over it?
Some additional ideas along these lines:
(1) Think type (at least for the time being) instead of complete set. Several ways to do this:
(a) one coin from the 1940's, one from the 1950's and one from the 1960's,
(b) one coin from the P mint one from the D mint and one from the S mint,
(c) one mint state and one proof both possibly finest known,
(d) a grading set of all grades from MS-60 to finest known in non FBL and also FBL for a selected date,
(e) well....you get the idea..........
There are many ways to break up your Franklin and/or your Anna sets to make attainment of smaller and more realistic goals more fun!!!!!