Why aren't there more Proof branch mint coins known?

SethChandler

The various mints seem like they made them all the time. From the 1838-O Half, to the 1907-D Twenty. With no consistency, they were all over the court. CC morgans for various years, O mint morgans, 1844-O Ten, Barber coins....it just wasn't special events or first year coins. Do you think that most are accounted for?

Seth

coinguy1

Seth, not only do I think most have been accounted for, but also, MORE than all of them have been offered for sale.

By that, I mean that I have seen many so-called branch mint proofs offered as such, when, in fact, they were only regular issue business strikes that happened to display proof-like surfaces.

True branch mint proofs are indeed rare, special and intriguing.

cladking

Circulation dies and proof dies are prepared differently. Most branch mint
dies were never prepared as proof dies so the coins weren't struck. When
they were struck it was intentional and in limited quantities.

SethChandler

Mark,

I've seen a few of the Morgans, the Norweb 1838-O Half, and those were obvious to me that they were Proofs, my question for you is.....out of all of the known BMPs which one has the weakest argument for being a BMP but is still classified as such?

Seth

Mark

When the branch mints struck actual proofs, I wonder how/if they reported it to Philadephia? Did the head of the branch mint risk anything when he had proofs struck for some special occassion?

Mark

Coinosaurus

There is virtually no primary written evidence that BMPs exist. The 1875-S 20c is probably the strongest exception, as there is a die marker and all the coins are obviously PL. Whether or not you choose to call them "proof", it is difficult to argue that they were not specially prepared.

However, regardless of what you call them, certain issues have only lately been "discovered", for example the 1876-CC dime, which in recent sales is selling for big bucks in highly PL condition. Go back 10 years and you will see PL examples being sold for much less. The difference? Part of it is the services putting "specimen" on the holder, and part of it is collectors deciding that ultra DMPL coins are worth very high premiums. Similarly, 1876-CC quarters have from time to time been described as unltra DMPL, and I suspect that if you find the right one you could get it into a "specimen" holder. However, the services have not yet "blessed" any 76-CC quarters in this way.

Certain CC Morgans are also widely accepted as BMPs, again, only the coins themselves can speak to the accuracy of this attribution.

sinin1

jeepers, and I thought all proofs were made in Philadelphia until 1968 and then in San Francisco (does that count as a proof branch mint coin source?)

Conder101

<< <i>The 1875-S 20c is probably the strongest exception, as there is a die marker and all the coins are obviously PL. >>


And all of them have been cherrypicked out of dealers stock as cleaned Uncs.

SethChandler

Anyone else? TTT

FC57Coins

There are several verified branch mint proofs in the Morgan series - two that stick in my mind is the 1879-O Branch proof to commemorate the start of minting at the New Orleans Mint again, and 1893CC - to commemorate the end of minting in Carson City. Supposedly there were between 20 and 200 branch mint proof/presentation Franklin halves made at the San Francisco Mint to commemorate the start of minting of that coin in 1949. OldCameoProofsGuy has one!

coinguy1

Seth, my apologies - I had meant to answer your follow-up question earlier.

I have seen several alleged examples of the 1875-S branch mint proof 20c piece over the years and most, were far from convincing. Ditto for a number of so called Seated Liberty and Barber branch mint proof examples.

I did see an 1891-O Seated Liberty Quarter when I worked at Steve Ivy Rare Coins (which later became part of Heritage) - It sold in one of their auctions, some time between 1979 and 1982. I saw it again years later - it looked special!

As you mentioned, some of the branch mint proof Morgan Dollars are quite convincing - I was fortunate to have seen a number of them while at NGC. Some were "no brainers" but a few were much tougher calls.

Of course, the most famous and valuable branch mint proofs are the 1894-S Barber Dimes. They aren't as well made as Philadelphia mint examples, but, they certainly have an incredible mystery, history and lore about them.

tradedollarnut

The Benson 75-S twenty cent piece, which I recently sold, was an obvious BMP. The Norweb 1838-O half, which I still own, is an obvious BMP.

Several other 1838-O's that I've viewed are much less convincing....less deep mirrors and obvious contact marks.

coinguy1

TDN, as much fun as it might be to disagree with you, I must admit, the Benson 1875-S 20c piece was one of the more convincing/obvious ones I have seen.