More observations about the availability of mint and proof sets.

cladking

I try to keep my finger on the pulse of these markets. They are not well developed
markets and there really are no market makers to call and ask about them. There is
a little better defined market in the proof sets, but even here most of the flow of coins
has always been from the original purchaser to and "end user" through a dealer. End
users are typically someone assembling rolls or setting aside gems though there have
always been some who collect the sets as issued. In recent years there is a new type
of end user who has been gaining greatly in importance and demand; this is the collec-
tor. The new collector is forming sets of one or more of the denominations. Many of
these collectors are newbies, but there are also long established numismatists who de-
sire the various sets. Also in recent years there are some seeking gems and varieties
to slab and sell at a profit.

It is obvious that eventually the head waters must dry up and stem the flow of these
sets onto the market. Demographics, time, and tide all say that when something is in
finite supply that at some point it's destruction must come to an end. One of the ways
I watch for this end is to try to keep up with the mint sets sold on the net, especially
from coin store sites.

I check all the sites generated from about 15 different search engines, and have spotted
an interesting new trend: Sites which keep up with price changes in mint sets (and proof)
are charging increasing premiums to CDN ask. My interpretation is that the sites which keep
up are actively buying and selling these sets and they are finding them easier to sell and
harder to buy.

Is this the end? Time will tell.

Dog97

I have noticed that 1997 Mint & Proof Sets have almost doubled in value according to what they sell for on eBay as compared with 2 or 3 years ago. I'm not sure what it means or what caused the increase.

VonZipper

Interesting cladking as always. Since we are talking sets I was curious if people that bought mint sets from the mint when they were first issued for 2002 received nice coins in the sets? Or does anyone buying last minute sets from the mint now getting any nice coins. My thought is that if the mint produced sets and then stored them would the first sets minted be stacked on the bottom as they were produced and stored, hence the ones on top of the stack might be from the middle of the run and sold the first day(s). Coins minted first I would assume would be better quality until the dies wore out and were replaced. I guess it would probably be a hit and miss since dies are changed constantly. I ordered the first minutes they came out last year and received some nice sharp strikes with very little marks. Anyone else how was the quality of the coins you received and when did you buy them?

fishcooker

VZ,

I think there might be some changes afoot as to when is the time to buy, because of the mint starting to charge shipping. In years past (like 2000), if you got a proof with a speck on a coin, you could return it for free replacement. I think the mint re-cycled their returns, hoping someone else would not see the speck. Late in 2000 I ordered 10 proofs and returned 6 "bad" ones. I think the time of year had much to do with it.

Today you have shipping charges, so maybe you don't return the set. Perhaps that makes the odds of getting a "good" set from the mint higher throughout the year.

melikecoins

Cladking, Are you refering to the destruction of the sets for gems or rolls?
And that the supply of whole sets is now being limited?

Glen

cladking

<< <i>Cladking, Are you refering to the destruction of the sets for gems or rolls?
And that the supply of whole sets is now being limited?

Glen >>



Yes. But these are not the only reasons that the sets have been getting destroyed.

melikecoins

I agree and the price will show that you are right.

Glen

cladking

I hope so. When the sets are gone there will be only collections and coins which have been set aside
for the future. I'm guessing there will not be large numbers of these since so few rolls of most moderns
were saved and few collections exist. Those who wish to assemble unc sets will have no choice but
to buy from the handfull of dealers who stock such coins. Few of these coins are truly rare but surviving
numbers are much lower than is generally assumed and even some of the more common coins don't
exist in sufficient numbers to supply a mass market.

melikecoins

That is why I concentrate only in the 1970s
Most dealers think that they are shall we say common____

Glen

GDJMSP

<< <i> Few of these coins are truly rare but surviving numbers are much lower than is generally assumed and even some of the more common coins don't exist in sufficient numbers to supply a mass market. >>



As a collector of original proof & mint sets I can say that some of them just don't want to be found. With mint sets the late 50's to date are not difficult. But the older they get the harder it is even to find one - let alone a nice one. And then of course you have to be able to afford it - they aint cheap. Proof sets are little different - the cutoff date for them seems to be '54. Dates prior to that are downright difficult. And pre 1950 - haven't even seen one in quite some time.

cladking

The earlier sets are much more difficult to find. There is no question about this. Mintages were
far lower than for the more modern sets and attrition rates are nearly as high, and perhaps high-
er in a few cases. Should future collectors desire intact sets then the pre-64 will go to far higher
prices than the later sets. With the earlier sets, though there are rolls and bags of the coins in
the mint sets. While the best quality is normally found in the sets there will be no scarce issues
of any of the 1947-1964 issues in unc. This is not true for the later sets. The demand for these
has always been abysmal and there are no bags and rolls of many of the coins. Even though the
sets were made in large numbers they have been destroyed in large numbers with few of the coins
going into collections or sets. If true that the days of these still unappreciated sets are rapidly
coming to a close then future collectors will find the coins which were in them in short supply. Intact
sets themselves will not be overly tough unless substantially more collectors desire complete runs
of them. Mith mintages between one and four million, it is difficult to believe they will not continue
to dwarf the surviving populations of the older sets, but many of the individual coins could be tough.