Toned coins are a very personal matter involving taste. It looks like this poor fellow just got scared because the market at the time was so thin. Want to bet if he held this coin for 5 year minimum like a long term invester of fine art, he would have had a very sound return and a lot of envious collectors looking at his coin? I know he would have been happier buying bullion coins for a 2 year hold--it depends on the person IMHO.
They estimate the value of my '86 Morgan to be $300. you know, the one that Adrian took a picture of? the one that everyone liked, though many though that I indeed paid too much? Needless to say, I was not pleased. I must pay a $650 fee to withdraw my coins from their auction in late May, since my 13 coins have already been photographed and catalogued. As of this time I do not wish to pay the fee. I simply wish to recoup as much money from my foolish foray into coins as possible. In fact, I followed advice from this message board when I decided to sell the '86 Morgan and go with Goldberg. The coin is displayed on eBay LIVE! and in their catalog.
comments?
I will only respond to email at sdsu6993117@yahoo.com if anyone wishes to p/m me. Otherwise, I hope this sparks a lively discussion on the status of unusually-toned coins in the market. My next hobby will be rubbing wooden sticks together to keep warm under a bridge where I will live because of my financial follies.
Thank you, Barney >>
Barney, what r u wanting us to say? Do? I mean I knew it was a fad...just like 20 yrs ago. This board has stated that it might b a fad.. Do u only collect as an investment? Sounds like it 2 me. Sorry about ur trouble but I think we have ALL made mistakes in this hobby, I certainly have. I can't help heal ur wounds...so try and enjoy the coins...I'm not really into toning but some r beautiful and I own some. Thx and sorry.
btw If u r looking 4 a new hobby...I'm an Admin @ a DSS Site...let me know if u r intrested.
<< <i>Toned coins are a very personal matter involving taste. It looks like this poor fellow just got scared because the market at the time was so thin. Want to bet if he held this coin for 5 year minimum like a long term invester of fine art, he would have had a very sound return and a lot of envious collectors looking at his coin? I know he would have been happier buying bullion coins for a 2 year hold--it depends on the person IMHO. >>
Regardless of how long he held the coin he had little chance of ever getting his money back much less making a profit, he has about 3k into the coin with what he traded for it. I remember the whole saga and it was not the best looking coin as it had the more common pastel type colors instead of the bright vivid colors that really bring the good money and the coin only graded MS64. Barney was an uninformed buyer who overpaid for a coin he knew nothing about so there was little chance of him ever breaking even, just another example of a newbie jumping head first into coins without a clue of what he was getting himself into.
<< <i>Regardless of how long he held the coin he had little chance of ever getting his money back much less making a profit, he has about 3k into the coin with what he traded for it. I remember the whole saga and it was not the best looking coin as it had the more common pastel type colors instead of the bright vivid colors that really bring the good money and the coin only graded MS64. Barney was an uninformed buyer who overpaid for a coin he knew nothing about so there was little chance of him ever breaking even, just another example of a newbie jumping head first into coins without a clue of what he was getting himself into. >>
Rainbowroosie
Couldn't agree with you more - Here's an indepth analysis that expands on your points (lifted from the other Barney thread):
Important points that can be gleaned form Barney's 2 threads are as follows:
1. NEVER buy any coin as an investment when you don't know it's wholesale and retail value (the buy/sell spread).
2. NEVER buy a coin in which you are not familiar with it's marketability- Value and marketability are very different. A common MS63 $20 saint is quite marketable - it can be quickly sold at virtually any coin show at a consistent level - sometimes the buy/sell spread is $5 - conversely, a 1927-S FH MS65 Standing Liberty Quarter with a Greysheet bid of $120,000 could be an absolute disasterous purchase if those few high end collectors who are specialists in Standing Liberty Quarters do not accept either the FH designation or the numerical MS65 grade as it might sell for less than $10,000 because that is a very specialized field and the collector who knows SLQs is going to insist that his MS65 really has a FH before he pays 6 figures for the key to his set. There are very few knowledgeable "collectors" who need their egos stroked so they can have a #1 Registry set like the person who paid almost $40K for a Proof 1963 Lincoln penny that the paper insert said PR70DCAM when the actual coin was at best a spotted PR65. That coin was NOT marketable and the only reason that particular collector was able to sell it was because PCGS was willing to buy it to take it off the market as it had become a public relations disaster.
3. NEVER make an impulse purchase of any coin or collectable that you are unfamiliar with - almost a 100% guarantee that you'll loose money.
4. NEVER ignore good advice from someone who has a knowledge that exceeds your own knowledge when it comes to spending your hard-earned money on any collectable.
5. NEVER pay a lot of money for any COLLECTABLE that you've fallen in love with unless you are prepared to own it solely for the reason that it's something you love and don't care if you are able to recoup your cost.
In the end - the fact that this coin was toned was NOT the root cause of Barney's loss. Falling in love with an attractive coin certainly contributed to this, but no one cheated Barney - He made a lot of mistakes - every one listed above - in the end, though unfortunate and economically painful, Barney was 100% of the cause of his economic loss. He made the decisions that led to his loss, with no pressure or compulsion to trade his coins for something that a dealer valued at $2500 - kinda like an amature card player getting into a high-stakes poker came with a bunch of professional card players. I don't think he would get "lucky" and be the big winner at the end of the night.
Barney then compounded his errors by placing it in an auction in which he apparently choose not to protect the value of his coin - I don't know what the market was for that toned coin when he sold it, but in today's market, I would agree with Eric that it's worth in the area of $1200 - might be worth a bit more, maybe a bit less depending on what it looks like in hand, but it's not a $2000 coin (in my opinion) even in today's market, and I would make an educated guess that the market for toned coins is a little better today than it was 18 months ago. A better way to sell that coin would have been to consign it to a dealer whao regularly sells nice toned coins. He may have been able to get a higher net price as when the dealer has no money invested in the commodity, if he accepts a small % of the sale price, he still makes money with no carrying costs - putting 1 coin in his case or 1 coin on his website is not a costly proposition.
This transaction tells us a lot about how NOT to buy and sell items that you're not familiar with. This thread - actual this and the other Barney thread) also has a lot of good information about the value of high end toned coins and that they are truly an area that requires an expertise beyond merely looking at the greysheet. This is an area that requires the collector to do his homework BEFORE taking the plunge - but those with a good working knowledge of coins and specifically toned are quite comfortable with high quality MONSTER toned coins - they are quite addictive and to those that love them - they are very saleable to a very selective (and Fussy) group of collectors.
Collecting eye-appealing Proof and MS Indian Head Cents, 1858 Flying Eagle and IHC patterns and beautiful toned coins.
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Mark Twain Newmismatist
Comments
at the time was so thin. Want to bet if he held this coin for 5 year minimum like a long term invester of fine art, he
would have had a very sound return and a lot of envious collectors looking at his coin? I know he would have been happier
buying bullion coins for a 2 year hold--it depends on the person IMHO.
Herb
<< <i>According to Goldberg, they are...
They estimate the value of my '86 Morgan to be $300. you know, the one that Adrian took a picture of? the one that everyone liked, though many though that I indeed paid too much? Needless to say, I was not pleased. I must pay a $650 fee to withdraw my coins from their auction in late May, since my 13 coins have already been photographed and catalogued. As of this time I do not wish to pay the fee. I simply wish to recoup as much money from my foolish foray into coins as possible. In fact, I followed advice from this message board when I decided to sell the '86 Morgan and go with Goldberg. The coin is displayed on eBay LIVE! and in their catalog.
comments?
I will only respond to email at sdsu6993117@yahoo.com if anyone wishes to p/m me. Otherwise, I hope this sparks a lively discussion on the status of unusually-toned coins in the market. My next hobby will be rubbing wooden sticks together to keep warm under a bridge where I will live because of my financial follies.
Thank you,
Barney >>
Barney, what r u wanting us to say? Do? I mean I knew it was a fad...just like 20 yrs ago. This board has stated that it might b a fad..
Do u only collect as an investment? Sounds like it 2 me.
Sorry about ur trouble but I think we have ALL made mistakes in this hobby, I certainly have. I can't help heal ur wounds...so try and enjoy the coins...I'm not really into toning but some r beautiful and I own some.
Thx and sorry.
btw If u r looking 4 a new hobby...I'm an Admin @ a DSS Site...let me know if u r intrested.
Thank You
SilverDollar
<< <i>Toned coins are a very personal matter involving taste. It looks like this poor fellow just got scared because the market
at the time was so thin. Want to bet if he held this coin for 5 year minimum like a long term invester of fine art, he
would have had a very sound return and a lot of envious collectors looking at his coin? I know he would have been happier
buying bullion coins for a 2 year hold--it depends on the person IMHO. >>
Regardless of how long he held the coin he had little chance of ever getting his money back much less making a profit, he has about 3k into the coin with what he traded for it. I remember the whole saga and it was not the best looking coin as it had the more common pastel type colors instead of the bright vivid colors that really bring the good money and the coin only graded MS64. Barney was an uninformed buyer who overpaid for a coin he knew nothing about so there was little chance of him ever breaking even, just another example of a newbie jumping head first into coins without a clue of what he was getting himself into.
<< <i>Regardless of how long he held the coin he had little chance of ever getting his money back much less making a profit, he has about 3k into the coin with what he traded for it. I remember the whole saga and it was not the best looking coin as it had the more common pastel type colors instead of the bright vivid colors that really bring the good money and the coin only graded MS64. Barney was an uninformed buyer who overpaid for a coin he knew nothing about so there was little chance of him ever breaking even, just another example of a newbie jumping head first into coins without a clue of what he was getting himself into.
>>
Rainbowroosie
Couldn't agree with you more - Here's an indepth analysis that expands on your points (lifted from the other Barney thread):
Important points that can be gleaned form Barney's 2 threads are as follows:
1. NEVER buy any coin as an investment when you don't know it's wholesale and retail value (the buy/sell spread).
2. NEVER buy a coin in which you are not familiar with it's marketability- Value and marketability are very different. A common MS63 $20 saint is quite marketable - it can be quickly sold at virtually any coin show at a consistent level - sometimes the buy/sell spread is $5 - conversely, a 1927-S FH MS65 Standing Liberty Quarter with a Greysheet bid of $120,000 could be an absolute disasterous purchase if those few high end collectors who are specialists in Standing Liberty Quarters do not accept either the FH designation or the numerical MS65 grade as it might sell for less than $10,000 because that is a very specialized field and the collector who knows SLQs is going to insist that his MS65 really has a FH before he pays 6 figures for the key to his set. There are very few knowledgeable "collectors" who need their egos stroked so they can have a #1 Registry set like the person who paid almost $40K for a Proof 1963 Lincoln penny that the paper insert said PR70DCAM when the actual coin was at best a spotted PR65. That coin was NOT marketable and the only reason that particular collector was able to sell it was because PCGS was willing to buy it to take it off the market as it had become a public relations disaster.
3. NEVER make an impulse purchase of any coin or collectable that you are unfamiliar with - almost a 100% guarantee that you'll loose money.
4. NEVER ignore good advice from someone who has a knowledge that exceeds your own knowledge when it comes to spending your hard-earned money on any collectable.
5. NEVER pay a lot of money for any COLLECTABLE that you've fallen in love with unless you are prepared to own it solely for the reason that it's something you love and don't care if you are able to recoup your cost.
In the end - the fact that this coin was toned was NOT the root cause of Barney's loss. Falling in love with an attractive coin certainly contributed to this, but no one cheated Barney - He made a lot of mistakes - every one listed above - in the end, though unfortunate and economically painful, Barney was 100% of the cause of his economic loss. He made the decisions that led to his loss, with no pressure or compulsion to trade his coins for something that a dealer valued at $2500 - kinda like an amature card player getting into a high-stakes poker came with a bunch of professional card players. I don't think he would get "lucky" and be the big winner at the end of the night.
Barney then compounded his errors by placing it in an auction in which he apparently choose not to protect the value of his coin - I don't know what the market was for that toned coin when he sold it, but in today's market, I would agree with Eric that it's worth in the area of $1200 - might be worth a bit more, maybe a bit less depending on what it looks like in hand, but it's not a $2000 coin (in my opinion) even in today's market, and I would make an educated guess that the market for toned coins is a little better today than it was 18 months ago. A better way to sell that coin would have been to consign it to a dealer whao regularly sells nice toned coins. He may have been able to get a higher net price as when the dealer has no money invested in the commodity, if he accepts a small % of the sale price, he still makes money with no carrying costs - putting 1 coin in his case or 1 coin on his website is not a costly proposition.
This transaction tells us a lot about how NOT to buy and sell items that you're not familiar with. This thread - actual this and the other Barney thread) also has a lot of good information about the value of high end toned coins and that they are truly an area that requires an expertise beyond merely looking at the greysheet. This is an area that requires the collector to do his homework BEFORE taking the plunge - but those with a good working knowledge of coins and specifically toned are quite comfortable with high quality MONSTER toned coins - they are quite addictive and to those that love them - they are very saleable to a very selective (and Fussy) group of collectors.
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Mark Twain
Newmismatist