Seeking collectors' preferences on population data to be included in coin descriptions on web sites

coinguy1

I am in the midst of updating the population figures for our web site listings. I do it each quarter, when I receive the new NGC and PCGS pop reports. Please don't flame me for not doing it daily or weekly Edited to add: Many of our coins are sold well before the next pop report comes out, anyway.

I cannot promise that we can or will go along with what the forum majority thinks is best. However, I am interested in finding out what you folks prefer, regarding population figures being included in web site descriptions.

Here are some of the general guidelines/procedures I/we follow, though I can't fairly claim that we are perfectly consistent in what we do:

If a coin is scarce (I know, that is a subjective term), we include the population for the grading service that has certified the coin, along with the number that have been graded higher.

On particularly rare/low population coins (I know, that is subjective/relative, as well), we often include both the NGC AND PCGS populations and the number that have graded higher.

For coins that have "Cameo" or "Ultra/Deep Cameo" designations, we usually make note of those, as well, even if the one we are offering has not received one of those designations. We don't want someone to mistakenly think that a particular date is rarer than it really is, just because it has or hasn't received a designation.

If we have just purchased a very low population coin that we KNOW has just been made and is not yet reflected in the latest pop report, we take that into account when reporting the population.

Now, my questions for you:

Who thinks that any and ALL coin listings should include the population number?

If your answer to the above is no, what value or population cut off would you recommend?

How many of you care to see how many coins have been graded higher than the one being listed?

How many of you care to know the PCGS population of a rare coin certified by NGC or the NGC population of a rare coin certified by PCGS?

How many of you care what the populations are?

Any other opinions or feedback you would care to provide?

Thank you in advance for your help. Now, I must get back to updating those darned population figures.

mrdq

<< <i>How many of you care what the populations are? >>


Pop reports to me don't matter too much. I'm not in the registry competition. What is more important to me is is it R-1 or R-7? If you're asking $4,200 for a coin i'm more interested in it's relative rarity overall than what any grader think's it's grade is.

Kim

Hi Mark,
I think your current policy is right on. Listing the pops for every coin would be a waste of your precious man power. Don't do it. A link to where someone could look it up for themselves would be a nice touch. Don't bother including stats outside of NGC/PCGS. No other company has earned that right, yet, IMO. On the higer end coins, I do like to know when I'm purchasing a MS 66, just how many 67's there are. I also want to know how many in 65, but I'm capable of doing my own homework. Clients who gravitate towards high grade low pop coins usually are the ones who need the info the most , and the astute collector would expect the service.

michael

for me i would like the pops of each coin both ngc pcgs and then just how many are higher total ngc pcgs
and also for the deep cameo cameo coins etc i would like that also
and if thecoin has few if any higherthat mentioned also which i am sure many would do anyway........lol

i am sure it will not help some sales as those who are consirned with pops will not like a coin even thought is is a greawyt coin and a value coin because of the pops but such is life and even if you do not put the pops in many will still look it up anyway

but for me it does help get an idea of the coin i guess for just one piece of the whole pie sometimes pops for me are an important part of the whole picture remember............. i said part
and sometimes it really does not matter!!!!!!!!!!

but it does help and i do like it the pop numbers all the time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
as if it is not listed on a description i go look it up anyway
and for me research wise it is interestingb to see coins the photos descriptions and

the even "evil" pop report numbers ngc pcgs...........lol
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as no matter how much of a purist you are in collecting coins or whatever you are doing in coins
i must admit the pop report numbers for a particiular coin ngc pcgs is an important part of the entire picture!
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i guess for me pop reports are useful to a certian extent and anytime i am looking at a coin for whatever reason the first thing that comes to my mind is what is the ngc pcgs pop for this coin? how many have been graded since july 1998? gives you an idea if any have been made it is useful to know this! and how many are higher? imean if you have a coin lets say an ms 65 and you go back say 5 years and not many if any have been certified as 65 since 5 years ago it is useful information

also if you have a coin that has gone up substancially in 65 and higher then that helps you make a better decsison on what you want to do with this coin!
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i GUESS WHAT I AM SAYING IS LIKE IT OR NOT POP REPORTS ARE HERE TO STAY AND THE POP REPORTS CAN BE USED TO MAKE BETTER DECISIONS ABOUT COINS ONE TOOL OUT OF MANY
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sincerely michael

another great thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! post thiose pops on your site with the coin descriptions mark!! post higher pops and if there is anything unusualabout the pops mark post that too your comments

like none higher
or the pop reports confirm the rarity of this piece
or even though the pop reports are high you never see a coin like this in this grade with these surfaces
like toned just plain eye appealling deep cameo etc

well then you might get too long descritpions i guess it is for you to figure out a happy medium!

or let me write all your descriptions mark then you will need 10 times the web space you alredy have and you might not sell anything,,,,,,,,,,,,,,lol LOL as i guess too much talk kills anything even monster coins.................lol

Dog97

You don't have to list the pop of an 81-S Morg in 65 but a really rare model you might mention a pop 20/3 for example even though most Classic collectors familiar with their series already know the rarity of what they're looking for.

For Moderns I am interested in seeing the pop because I buy then for the pop. Highest graded baby!

If you list the pops just stick with the pops. Don't make a long boring hyped up description about how this is 10 times rarer in this grade which is 40 times more common than the other grade but sells for 35.2 times less than it did in 1988 in the next lower grade so it is undervalued at it's current level according to the PCGS Price Guide blah blah blah...............

Nysoto

Mark,

For what I collect (early halves), NGC/PCGS pop data is useless. But what would be nice is attribution by Overton number on your new draped bust halves.

relayer

Since you don't deal in modern coins, I think the Pop numbers are useful information.

I do like Rick Tomaska's x-x-x ratings using of the Universal Rarity Scale , grade and Eye Appeal factors.

Also I have a question for you about pop numbers and designations. I have a 1905 IHC PR64 RD CAM that is a pop 1/1, yet there are other higher 1905 IHC graded coins that are not cameo. Say there are 50 65's, 30 66's and 10 67's. Do I have a pop 1/1 or a pop 1/81 ?

MadMonk

Mark, without covering all your points, I'll just say that the more information a consumer has the better.
Informed decisions are easier made. So I for one, like all the data at my disposal to compare, total, judge, etc.

Veep

Mark,

I know the rarity of coins in which I'm interested and either have the population/census already or don't want it.

DeepCoin

Mark,

I think that it is useful to provide the population on coins where the number is meaningful. However, a good point was made concerning the really early material. For those, the relative rarity is also very important. So, I guess it is by series pretty much as different series have different information needs.

All that said, I think you are doing a great job now, I just wish I had the really deep pockets your beautfiul coins require.

tjkillian

Generally I go for populus coins as opposed to scarce coins. I look for high population numbers as I want a cool coin that I can afford.

Tom

coinguy1

Anyone else? I thought more people would have (strong) opinions on this subject.

Wisconsin

Mark,

I am always happy to see populations for coins by both NGC and PCGS. That is really more helpful than just the service the coin is holdered by. I also like to know how many have been graded higher. How you determine which coins to add this info to is up to you. If I were a seller I wouldn't want to list coins with high populations, but as a buyer I would like to see it. I've never seen anyone state that there is a popultion in the thousands, but only the low numbers. Maybe you should be the first. I know your company is as honest and up front with collectors as possible, so maybe all pops. should be included regardless of the numbers. Sorry to add more work to your already busy schedule.

Jay

Catch22

Mark, if the population of a particular coin is reflected in the asking price then I would certainly mention it. If, however, a coin is priced without particular consideration to it's population rank then I would probably not find it useful in my decision to purchase.

Looking at it from a dealer's perspective, which I'm not, I would tout every attribute that I thought would help me sell the coin for the most amount of money.

A dealer of your caliber would best know the series that garner a lot of registry action and find pop reports valuable in describing your offering.

ms71

On a scarce one, I like to see "total" graded (both PCGS and NGC), as well as number graded at the coin's grade, and number higher. Recently bought a gold dollar 1849 Closed Wreath PCGS64. Total graded is about 80 in all grades. The "scarcer", and more expensive (in any grade) 1849 Open Wreath has about 900 total graded (PCGS Pops only). Go figure. To me, this made the 1849 Closed Wreath a good buy at the price, it's really a much scarcer item than generally realized, I think (but I doubt the market price will ever change to reflect its scarcity).

Lakesammman

I do my own research/checking anyway, so don't find it much help. Often times old numbers are quoted. On occasion, I know the numbers are flat out wrong so ignore them anyway. For the coins I collect, I don't find the numbers in the listing very helpful/useful.

BigE

Sounds harsh, but if I was writing descriptions for coins I would only post the pops. of coins that was helpful to me, and as a seller if the pop added nothing to the value I would spend the time highlighting the special qualities of a particular coin-------------------BigE