This one still ticks me off

Singapore

This Franklin Press Token in PCGS 65 first showed up at Goldberg's Benson I sale in February '01:



Pretty common really, but in exceptional condition, better than the photo, and one of the nicest original mint state colonials I've ever seen of any variety.

After a long evening of getting outbid on every other coin they offered, I get really annoyed and decide I'm buying this one. And after some spirited bidding the thing tops out at an absurd for the type $4850 and they hammer it and I'm the winning the bidder. So Ira Goldberg asks for my bidder number and I fumble for a couple seconds trying to pick up the dam thing and show it to him when suddenly some guy from across the room yells $4950! and the flippin' auction is back on.

A few minutes later I'm not the winning bidder anymore and the thing goes for $5300 or so, which I might have bid but didn't because I was too PO'd.

I think there is a moral here, but I'm not sure what it is.

ConstellatioCollector

I'm sorry to here that Singapore. One nice coin though!!!

VonZipper

I would say if the hammer dropped it's a done deal.

rainbowroosie

Maybe luck was with you...that's a stiff price....you still have $5K to find another wonder coin!

BigMoose

Singapore, I think you were fortunate. That is an awful lot of money for what is essentially a conder token.

abuell

You should have kissed the guy for upping your bid. As nice as it is, it's still just another common Conder token.

Coulport

Hammered sold? then Goldberg accepts another bid?
If so, it speaks volumes about that outfit.

Singapore

There is a part 2 to this story -

The coin re-appeared at Goldberg's a year later in another auction and brought the deluxe price of $7500 or so to a bidder that wasn't me. So someone somewhere liked it a lot.

Re the hammered and then un-hammered routine, I think it sucked. But to be fair I've been to many Goldberg sales and haven't seen that before or since. Plus I've seen the opposite, where someone tried to make a last second bid and Ira rejected it becuase the coin was 'sold'. So I don't think they are any worse than anybody else - this one was my fault, I guess, for not having the card handy.

As for the coin, I agree its common as heck, but you have to see this one in person to appreciate it - if there is a better, original example I'd be surprised.

As for the 'its just a common conder token' refrain, I hear that a lot about different colonial coins shown in the Redbook. I'm not sure why that makes these so much less desireable or collectable than something else, but I am prepared to educated if BigMoose or abuell can oblige.

roadrunner

I've had the same thing happen to me a few times in Stack's auctions after more than one lot had passed. Each time this same pushy dealer would have the lot reopened and ultimately "won" it.
When the tables were turned he'd scream out bloody murder saying that the lot was hammered down and that was that. It takes all kinds.

roadrunner

joejeweler

I'd be interested to learn the "handle" of this pushy dealer!
PM me if you want......i can keep a secret.......



<< <i>I've had the same thing happen to me a few times in Stack's auctions after more than one lot had passed. Each time this same pushy dealer would have the lot reopened and ultimately "won" it.
When the tables were turned he'd scream out bloody murder saying that the lot was hammered down and that was that. It takes all kinds.

roadrunner >>

tradedollarnut

Wait a minute - What lot are we on?

dorkkarl

you got screwed, dude

nice coin, early die-state is so much tougher than the lds. eac ms-63?

K S

Gilbert

Singapore,

Unfortunate. Hope it comes around in your favor in the future.

On the other hand, it is a bit disconcerting to hear how lucky you are, be glad you were outbid, it's pricey, etc. Generally, the concensus seems to be if you like, no cost is too much.

BTW, don't know condor tokens, but even the image looks nice. Good luck in the future.

gemtone65

No doubt the big auction houses give certain courtesies to their big, regular dealer customers. Some of these same dealers frankly are obnoxious in the auction room -- chatting among themselves to the annoyance of those sitting nearby, delaying the bidding while they fumble for thier various customer bids, and asking for lots to be reopened. I'm sure if I acted that way I'd either be asked to leave to not come back -- at least at the current level of my acquisitions.

abuell

<< <i>
As for the 'its just a common conder token' refrain, I hear that a lot about different colonial coins shown in the Redbook. I'm not sure why that makes these so much less desireable or collectable than something else, but I am prepared to educated if BigMoose or abuell can oblige. >>



I'm not saying that it necessarily less desirable or collectable - each individual has to determine that for themselves. But one does have to keep in mind with Franklin Press tokens, 'Kentucky' tokens, TA&L tokens and mules, etc. that one is often paying a hefty 'Redbook premium.' If one wants to acquire some high grade Conder tokens one could take that same money and buy a whole lot more quanity, condition and rarity with just about any other Conder. Similarly if one want to put that money into colonial / confederation issues the F.P. token doesn't fit into either catagory save for itsa being listed as such in the Redbook. My opinion (and it's just my opinion) based on this reasoning is that the other bidder did you a favor.

As an aside, wait until mid-October for the first John Ford sale (Mass. copper, New Jerseys, Vermonts and Fugios) - You'll be glad that you saved that money.

BigMoose

I was going to try to explain my reasoning but I cannot say it any better than abuell! Singapore, you have posted some Phenomenal colonials on these boards, coins which were minted on the North American continent. These are the true colonials in my opinion, not coins which were minted in England with the most advanced minting equipment of the times. Just because its in the Redbook doesn't necessarily mean it fits in or is a true colonial issue.

Singapore

Abuell & BigMoose -

I like collecting by Redbook type, including some of these admittedly not truly American issues, because they make an interesting collection of coins of vastly different varieites, sizes, colors (ie compositions), design motifs, etc. In other words I like the way they look.

To me thats more appealing than a Perkins'-style collection of 400 coppers, the majority of which look pretty similar to all but the extremely educated eye - but I may well be in the minority in that opinion.

Thanks for the feedback.

supercoin

Cool -- condition rare Conder bashing! We modern collectors appreciate the break.

Conder101

The thing is other Conder tokens of similar rarity, in that same condition or BETTER are normally under $100. And the only connections that token has to the US is that we also had a gentleman named Franklin who was a printer (No relation to the printer that issued this token), and that because of that this token got listed in the Redbook. The "Kentucky" token and several of the Washington pieces have the same nebulus connections to the US. The TAL tokens that abuell mentioned though DO belong in the Redbook though even though the were struck in England by the same Conder token makers because they were specificly struck for a US company and were all shipped over here to be used as change by that company. They are denominated as one cent, not one penny and were never intended to circulate in England.

dorkkarl

agree 101% w/ conder101

K S