How's ICG been lately?
dan1ecu
Posts: 1,573
Does anyone know if there have been any changes at ICG in terms of their grading standards? If I recall correctly, it's for being too liberal with high-grade moderns that they've been criticized. They were supposedly all right at grading circulated classic coins. Has any of this changed? Do you think that they have a chance of becoming a top tier grading service?
Dan
Dan
0
Comments
FrederickCoinClub
I don't have first hand knowlege with the modern stuff (I don't even look at that material), but ICG's reputation in that area would keep me away from an ms/64 modern nickel.
As you can tell, I can't stand ICG, and I've seen the crap coins first hand to back up my thoughts on this company. For all the kudos the guy with that funny hat has (Martin?), he does an awful job at setting the standards for his graders.
LSCC#1864
Ebay Stuff
I've also heard their MS68 silver Roosevelts are two points over.
On the plus side I believe from what I've seen and read they are pretty good at circulated Classic stuff. In other words their VF20 is anyones VF20, give or take.
peacockcoins
<< <i>Pat -- is this Lincoln memorials or all Lincoln? I have two early Lincolns in ICG slabs that seem right on target in terms of grade. (although they are from David Lawrence so may not be representative) >>
The twenty or so I've seen (and owned) were all from the 50's with a couple from the early 60's.
I've heard the 70's don't fair well either.
Prior to the 50 lincolns, I couldn't tell you.
It's not so much the color is off, only there are too many tics for the Superb GEM grade of MS67. I'm not super picky, but these MS67's appeared to look (only) full GEM65.
Some also had carbon and weak strikes to add to my negative opinion.
Chances are if your coins were purchased through David Lawrence he pre-sreened them and gave them the nod, otherwise I doubt they would have been in his inventory.
peacockcoins
The fiasco with dumping thousands of false MS/PF 70s on the marketplace is beyond any redemption.
I don't see them staying in business beyond a couple of years. In the meantime, I would avoid them like the plague.
Brian.
To travel on in old accustomed ways
I still remember the talks by the water
The proud sons and daughter
That knew the knowledge of the land
Spoke to me in sweet accustomed ways
Brian.
<< <i>ny Customer may resubmit any coin or chip for review of the grade assigned by ICG if such Customer believes that such coin or chip has been overgraded by ICG. If the coin or chip submitted for review by the Customer receives a lower grade under ICG’s internal review practices than the grade originally assigned, ICG shall, at ICG’s option, either (a) replace the coin, or (b) pay any difference between the current fair market value of such coin or chip at the newly established grade and the current market value of the grade originally assigned to such coin or chip. >>
Graded Proof 69 Deep Cameo by ICG. Plenty more where that came from.
Russ, NCNE
http://www.camacs.com/coin_grading_services.htmllink
Those aren't his opinions. The information is based on a bogus eBay survey that was done over two years ago. The page used to mention the survey, and even had the rating numbers posted with each grading service. I guess he decided to remove that information.
Russ, NCNE
How in the world did they conduct an ebay survey? Contact sellers er what?
This is what it used to say on that page:
<< <i>The ratings were derived from a survey done on the EBAY COIN CHAT ( always a good place to ask coin questions) is only the opinion of those who participated.
Rating is on a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being the worst and 10 being the best. >>
And here's what the ratings were:
PCGS - 8.45
ICG - 8.72
NGC - 6.56
ANACS - 5.67
SEGS - 5.50
PCI - 4.69
Also, under ACG, he removed the following:
(they were all negative)
I HAVE DONE AS REQUESTED
"JUST SAY NO!!"
Apparently, he got some threats from somebody.
You can see the original page here.
Note: The above sometimes loads VERY slow.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i> How's ICG been lately? >>
I can't add much, only that I haven't submitted anything to ICG for over two years now. Perhaps that says enough.
Brian
K S
Most ICG mintstate coins (key dates) that I have seen will not cross over to PCGS in the same grade in a lot of cases.
In the circulated area, they have been closer and more on target from what I have seen.(with the exception of some early bust material)
jim
I really don't believe there is a grading company that any of you are happy about!
START BUYING YOUR COINS RAW AND WE WON"T HAVE TOLISTEN TO ANYTHING EXCEPT YOUR STUPIDITY ON THE MISTAKES YOU HAVE MADE ON THE COINS YOU BOUGHT!!!{BIG FINGER}
NEVER LET HIPPO MOUTH OVERLOAD HUMMINGBIRD BUTT!!!
WORK HARDER!!!!
Millions on WELFARE depend on you!
<< <i>
Graded Proof 69 Deep Cameo by ICG. Plenty more where that came from.
Russ, NCNE >>
Like this poster has any experience grading proof kennedys...
<< <i>I can't speak for moderns, but ICG from day one on mintstate coins has been too liberal. At minimum of a point too high or even two points in MS grades.
Most ICG mintstate coins (key dates) that I have seen will not cross over to PCGS in the same grade in a lot of cases.
In the circulated area, they have been closer and more on target from what I have seen.(with the exception of some early bust material)
jim >>
Jim- So that would only qualify as your grading opinion, right? You didn't actually buy the coins and try to have them cross? Have you ever bought a coin in another services' holder and not have it cross?
If so, were you wrong then? Or, was it PCGS that was wrong?
As I mentioned, I can't speak for moderns. But from experience, I have had several ms coins that would not cross into PCGS from ICG.
Just for the record, my entire collection is PCGS, so when I buy something raw or in another services holder, if it dont PCGS holder, it gets sold. Just call it a petpeeve to keep it uniform if that makes any sense.
Anyway, I was not able to find a nice white PCGS-63 32-d washington for the longest time in a PCGS holder. So I purchsed a Nice or what I though was a nice ICG-63, sent it in, came back returned no cross. Bought another 32-d ICG-63, broke it out, came back 62.
1939-d Jefferson ,Originally bought raw just because it was nice (Sent in to ICG because I had a grading certificate) Came back ICG-67 FS (blew my mind!) ,Because of this, I had this coin taken to a show for PCGS opinion, PCGS stated 66 at best and wont meet FS designation because of a mark on steps. Sold it in the ICG holder.
Few other similar instances with FUll red lincolns that would not cross either.
To be honest, have to admit and say it must have been me.
Now from experience, my grading of mintstate coins has become more conservative in relation to PCGS standards. Last two mintstate key dates I have bought, have comback from PCGS right on target grade I was hoping. If anything now, I may be a lttle too conservative at times?(or lets say cautious)
I agree that all services have some dogs, and I have seen a few in PCGS holders as well. Although it still remains my service of choice.
jim dimmick
<< <i>I think I will judge my grading companies by something more than how they grade $15 Kennedy halves. >>
Which is, of course, why the coin was sent to ICG instead of a real grading company.
Russ, NCNE
Neil
<< <i>
<< <i>
Graded Proof 69 Deep Cameo by ICG. Plenty more where that came from.
Russ, NCNE >>
Like this poster has any experience grading proof kennedys...
Airplanenut: Unfortunutely, even though you're probably correct regarding ICG's overgrading of Kennedy proofs (too many 70s!) all your photo proves is that ICG's plastic easily blotches and scratches. Their holders are too soft and mar easily.
peacockcoins