If you could have an original pre-1900 proof set with gold, which year would you choose and WHY?

SethChandler

Three rules, it can't be from before 1858 (sorry Mr. Pittman), nor can it be from 1875 (too many rarities), and Stella's don't count. And it must contain the cent thru the twenty dollar gold coin.

I 'll post my choice soon.....



One more thing (coinguy).......it must be a regular issue proof that was sold to the public, sorry, no dice on the 1884 & 1885 Trade Dollar

cosmicdebris

1804

originalisbest

1871, natch. A nice year with some very scarce dates, and 100 years before I was borned.

FC57Coins

1873 - last date of half dime, 2 cent 3 cent plus all open and closed dates, plus all the different dollars - that'd be a big set!!

tradedollarnut

Why, 1885 of course!

lclugza

I would choose 1887. Two proof-only gold coins, and a low mintage 3 cents, dime, quarter, and half dollar.

lclugza

On second thought, I think I'll change that to 1885, that is if I could include the Trade dollar which wasn't a regular issue and wasn't part of the Proof set sold by the Mint. If I can't include the Trade dollar, I'm sticking with 1887.

tradedollarnut

Hmmmm - new rules. 1864 might be a good set - Small motto 2 cent and with L Indian. Or 1867 w/rays nickel set. I'll go with the 1864.

Though actually, given the choice, I would take the all copper 1884 presentation set over any other. Imagine - an 1884 trade dollar in Proof 66 Red! Drool.....

SethChandler

The 1887 Set sounds good, so far......

Sunnywood

My favorite dates far and away are 1873 and 1877. 1873 is an awesome year, including With Arrows and No Arrows coins, and Open 3 & Closed 3 coins. 1877 is a great year too, with three of the eight silver & minor coins being proof only, and the cent being a classic date. Further, the six gold proofs of 1877 all had a mintage of TWENTY - the lowest in each respective series for regular issue proofs.

The Sunnywood 1877 gold proof set, sold recently, included the $10 and $20 from Trompeter ex Garrett, the $5 from Bass, and the $3 from Browning ("Dallas Bank Collection"). The $2.50 was a PR67 CAM and the $1.00 was probably ex Eliasberg or Garrett, but we were never able to nail down the pedigree. We also had a "black & white" cameo silver & minor set in matched PF66 CAM coins, as well as a second silver & minor set of toned coins (some of which were in the recent Heritage Sale in Charlotte, NC). The toned proof silver came out of the Vermeule auction, and we also had the Eliasberg trade dollar (NGC PF67) which recently appeared in a Bowers Sale from another consignor (we sold that coin two years ago). THis set also included some fabulous pattern half dollars of 1877, but we never acquired the copper half union patterns dated 1877.

Sunnywood

rd5425

1868

Nic

1866. What a great year for coins and American history. K

Ronyahski

#3) 1877. For alot of reasons Sunnywood already mentioned (I own some of those ex. Sunnywoods), plus, with due respect to some of the 60's dates, toughest silver coins to find nice for the date.

#2) 1873. Same reasons as above, arrows, closed 3s, always in demand type coins. Popular date.

#1) 1858. First year of the "cut-off" dates and the rarest mintage of any year. Mintage of only 100 for the silvers and the following mintage for gold: $1 - 20, $2 1/2 - 8, $3 - 15, $5 - 10, $10 - 4. Throw in a Lg Letters FE at a mintage of 80.

michael

1862 1868 really rARE and underrated sets in gem choice and gem proof and all original coins and/or cameos

especially so the silver issues

the 1871 i likes also

if you include deep cameos of all the coins you will probsbly not do it

maybe with cameos but would still be the ultimate in rarity

royyahski is right on for some 1860's proof coins!!!!!!!!!


and the best quote on here

the happy coins quote the overgraded coins in slabs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gilbert

Why so many restrictions? Is it realistic? I didn't even know proof "sets" were issued prior to 1936. Yes one could buy "proof coins" and I guess one could order (with the right connections) one of each proof for a particular year, but the requirement for a proof of every denomination seems to severely restrict which years can be chosen. I guess I could check each denomination for the year in question, but that would take all the fun out of it.

Please inform me what years would fit your category of "proof sets" with coins of every denomination (for the year I guess) that were offered (or available I suppose) to the public. Can I assume we are not talking about "presentation sets," only available to dignitaries.

Sorry to spoil the fun.

Oh, I get it. This is a hypothetical. In that case, it would 1878 for me. That is my fave year, as a Morgan collector, and I could have:

Indian Head Cent (2,350) Longacre
Nickel Three Cent piece (2,350 Proof only issued) Longacre
Shield Nickel w/o Rays (2,350 Proof only issued) Longacre
Seated Liberty Dime, Quarter & Half Dollar (800 ea) Gobrecht
8tf Morgan Dollar (500) Morgan
7tf Morgan Dollar (250) Morgan
Indian Head $1 and $3 (20 ea) Longacre
Coronet Type Quarter Eagle, Half Eagle & Eagle (20 ea) Gobrecht

Provided stats just in case for comparison to other "why X year".

3 designers
13 coins
7 designs
2 silver dollars
5 gold coins

I would have preferred one of the years you restricted; not because of rarity, but because of design.

SethChandler

Great set, Sunnywood. Where did you sell the set? I actually looked at a 1877 Gold Proof set at a coin show about 15 years ago, it was either at FUN or the ANA. Jeff Garrett had it, PCGS graded, and I believe ALL of the coins were PR64. And deep cameo. I wonder if a few of your ex-coins were from this set?

Gilbert, great post,...proof sets were "officially" sold to the public in 1858, therefore any proof coin before then is very rare. They were wrapped in tissue paper. 1878 is a great year, especially the gold.

TDN, I never would have guessed 1885!

As for myself, and your gonna laugh, but I'd go with the 1895 Proof Set. Something about that dollar being part of the set. Kind of like that scene in National Lampoon's "Vacation" where Clark(Chevy Chase) is driving the station wagon and up comes next to him is a hot babe(Christy Brinkley) in a..... red Ferrari. Double impact!

Seth

007

1861 A.C. Paquet rev. (Tall Letters) $Worth 850,000!

tradedollarnut

the sets owners decendants bought the coins directly from the Mint!

hmmmm......

Sunnywood

Hi Seth,

Well, the only 1877 gold proofs that could possibly have come from the set you saw 15 years ago would have been my $1.00 or the $2.50. My $3.00 was ex Dallas Bank and was acquired by H. Jeff Browning before 1978. My $5.00 was ex Bass, and he acquired it in a 1969 Lester Merkin auction. My $10 and $20 both came straight out of the Garrett Collection and went directly to Ed Trompeter. The set that you saw may have contained the coins from the Paramount auction of the N.M. Kaufman Collection (1978). That is the only other group that has been around the market besides the coins I mentioned. However, since my $1.00 was a solid gem (NGC PF65 CAM and quite PQ for the grade), and the $2.50 was NGC PF67 CAM (!!!), probably neither came out of that set.

Some of these coins are so rare that you can count the available survivors on one hand. For example, the 1877 proof $20 has a census of 7-8 survivors. Two of these are impounded in museums (the Smithsonian ex Josiah Lilly, and the ANS ex Brock, J.P. Morgan). Then there are the Bass, Garrett and Kaufman specimens, plus possibly one other PCGS PR64, and an impaired NGC PF58. That's about it. Now, take a look at the NGC and PCGS pops. You would think there are 20 of these in existence !!!! NOT SO !!!!!! An interesting lesson in pop reports and resubmissions !!! Conversely, my 1877 $10 (NGC PF64 CAM) is the ONLY example ever certified by NGC in any grade. These are NOT 1881-S Morgans !!!!

Unfortunately I am not at liberty to disclose the details of the transaction regarding the gold proofs.

Best,
Sunnywood

SethChandler

Do you think there are a few original proof sets left that have NEVER hit the market?

SethChandler

Or the 1886 Gold Proof Set out of the Pittman Sale......sold for almost 400k!

RYK

This is a great thread, Seth. I am glad that you started it and revived it. I must have missed it the first time around.

Robert

SethChandler

Robert, there are LOTS of great threads buried deep inside the servers of Collectors Universe. It is important that we keep bringing them back, because that is how we all learn, plus the new contributions make it fun. Treat old threads like old B & M and Stack's auction catalogues. Read, Read, Read.

Besides, where else are you going to find so much info on 1963 Proof Cents.

Seth----"today" I'm collecting BU Standing Liberty Quarters.

coinlieutenant

I would have to say 1872... Lots of key dates in the business strikes (2 cent, 3 cent silver, quarter eagle, eagle, half eagle among some of them) that put some date pressure on the proofs.

Plus, since my house was built that year, I am trying to build a set of those, so I am a bit biased I suppose...

John

flaminio

1879 or 1880. Stella! STELLA!!


Edit: Oh, what? Stellae don't count? Ferget it then... I don't want no 18xx gold proof sets

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS

How about 1895? All Deep Cameo and how about the dollar?

stewart

tradedollarnut

Trick answer: 1834!

SethChandler

This is a cool thread....