GAI/PSA Crossovers

miami3

I just got back a crossover order from psa that I was a little surprised to see.

I sent them all in their existing GAI holders.

All cards sent in were GAI-8, and I thought that they were on the high end of an 8.

All cards came back as mingrade except for one that crossed over into a psa 8.

Frankly, I thought that they would all crossover into 8's.

When you figure out the cost to buy the GAI-8 card, the shipping costs and the PSA grading fees you will take
a big hit if they dont crossover in the same or better grade from PSA.

Does anyone else have any experience with the new crossover program? I am curious to see if you have had any better luck than I.

acowa

What is mingrade? Is that where they say a GAI 8 would cross to a PSA 7?

Regards,


Alan

srs1a

Yes, you specify the minimum grade that you want the card to cross-over to...and if it doesn't make it, it is returned for "mingrade". Looks like miami3 specified that they cross cleanly into PSA-8's.

downgoesfrazier

Back in "the day" when I would do such things as crack cards out and submit them for crossover I saw two GAI 8's cross to PSA 9 in two tries. When I attempted a cross of 50 SGC's from 96 to PSA 9 47 crossed. I then cracked out the other three cards and recieved 9's on a raw submission. Facts here, guys. Different grader--different day, etc. In addition, there is no doubt based on my other submission results that had I cracked out and submitted, there would have been many 10's of the 47 that crossed to 9's. There is a bias against a card in another company's holder much of the time. PSA will tell you it is in their best interest to holder the card--so "why wouldn't we cross them."
Well, if enough people post crossover results like the ones that started this thread buyers will see GAI as a non-option. The fact is the standard shifts enough to where crossover results are not viable information, in my opinion. I will state again and will continue to do so for every "crossover" thread...
All three companies do a fine job most of the time. PSA has been fairly inconsistent for some time now. I'm truly starting to feel the half-point scale may be the answer on the higher-end cards...but that's another thread. Too bad about your results. Curious, were these cards you hoped to cross for your registry? If not, why would you cross them?

FB

I've got to agree with downgoesfrazier.

If you think that they're that nice and you've handled more than a few PSA 7's, 8's and 9's before - then its worth the shot to crack them out yourself and send them in. More than likely, they'll cross over to 8's not being in a GAI holder.

acowa

<PSA will tell you it is in their best interest to holder the card--so "why wouldn't we cross them.">

PSA get's paid either way...I don't buy this.


Alan

srs1a

downgoesfrazier,

I believe that at one time you posted some great information on your experiences with PSA, SGC and GAI...and the weight that the various companies places on the various attributes of a card. I've searched for this thread in several places, but can't find it. Could you kindly post it again?

thanks in advance!

Basilone

<< <i>More than likely, they'll cross over to 8's not being in a GAI holder. >>


No doubt...why would PSA willingly promote the fact the GAI is a viable 2nd or 3rd option....wouldn't they be shooting themselves in the foot? There is some conflict of interest here....

John

koby

I have tried to do the opposite by crossing over PSA cards to GAI holders. I used their exemplar service where you can make your decision after that have evaluated the card through the holder. I figured that this was the safer route because a crossover to GAI would only make financial sense if GAI gave the card a higher grade. I have done this with ten cards and the GAI grades in all but one were identical to the PSA grades. The one exception was a bump form PSA 7 to GAI 7.5. I decided to just have them all shipped back in their original PSA holders.

waitilltheytrytosell

basilone - That doesn't really make sense because of fraziers crossing over of 47 out of 50 SGC. PSA is just looking at the cards. They're not doing anything they shouldn't be doing just to send a message. It's just the cards and the submitters ability to select cards that will likely crossover.

dbj77

To me the biggest problem with any of this is that different graders on different days will grade differently (try saying that 3 times fast) I can't believe how easily people accept the fact that when they don't like a grade and crack it out to be re-graded and it comes back better or worse (not the same) there isn't more of an uproar.

I think Brucemo should do an experiment regarding the "Big 3" grading companies: PSA, SGC, GAI submit a couple cards (the same ones each time) to PSA, crack them out(without damaging them), resubmit them 2 more times, and do the same for each company so we can see what kind of results we are getting.

I know its impossible for one grader to grade thousands of cards a month, but I think we need more consistency.

downgoesfrazier

Here's some food for thought...what percentage of PSA 10's would be re-graded a 10 if cracked and re-submitted? Obviously each of our answers would vary some based on our unique set of experiences. My guess would be roughly 7%.

DBJ and gang, Here's a little game you can play when you have way too much time on your hands...

First, Take a stack of 30 vending-fresh or just nice cards with sturdy stock and reasonably sharp corners.

Second, grab a 10x and a bright light.

Third, scrutinize each card noting corners, edges, tilt it in each direction to look for wrikles front or back, examine the gloss or lack thereof, centering, etc....spend about 100 seconds at least on each card.

After the first twenty cards or so, assuming they are of like condition, your eyes will grow less discerning...multiply that by how many cards these guys are asked to grade...

Next, note your final grade on a sheet of paper and seal it in an envelope and shelve the cards for one month...or even overnight!

You may just be enlightened by what you will find. You will probably grade some of YOUR OWN cards differently with nothing more than a nights sleep...let alone a month, in between.

Don't misunderstand, I absolutely agree with you, this is just an interesting excercise I thought you might dig trying...I urge everyone to try it.

FB

If I ran a grading company...

PSA, BGS, SGC, GAI, whatever... I would put together a picture book for every grader with photos of PSA 1 through 10 for some key sets that they can refer back to. This would provide a singular constant for EVERY grader to work towards.

If a card comes back for review - put a piece of tape over the grade and have the reviewers see which picture it most closely resembles. If certain graders are off the mark more often than others - they get sent back for training. If someone keeps straying from the standard after retraining - they probably shouldn't work there anymore.

I just get the sense that the grading standards in verbal form are too open to interpretation - thats why we have inconsistency problems.

Just my 2 cents

Wabittwax

I agree with acowa, if PSA doesn't cross them over, they will probably get paid twice because the person will just crack them out and resubmit them raw. Or the person may sell them in GAI holders to somebody else who would use the crossover service. If PSA crosses it over to an 8, nobody will submit it raw or use crossover service on that card anymore. PSA could wind up getting paid many times for the same card before it eventually winds up in a PSA 8 holder anyways.

brucemo

<< <i>PSA, BGS, SGC, GAI, whatever... I would put together a picture book for every grader with photos of PSA 1 through 10 for some key sets that they can refer back to. This would provide a singular constant for EVERY grader to work towards. >>


This doesn't work, because you can't take a good enough picture, and even if you could, the card has four corners on the front, four on the back, four edges on the front, four on the back, two surfaces, centering front and back, and print. All of that together goes into the grade. If you go around looking for a card with a "PSA-9 corner" to take a picture of, you'll drive yourself half-crazy.

bruce

aro13

The photo idea was used in Alan Hager's infamous book. He gave a picture of a card representing a different grade, for different years. Although it was interesting to look at, the cards he used clearly defined the grade. There were no sliders. He did not use cards that were 50/50 centered, with sharp corners but print marks. Judging by how many people liked his book and how many ideas were taken from it, I doubt the picture idea would fly. There are just so many variables as Brucemo mentioned.

downgoesfrazier-I agree 100%. I go over my collection every so often and it amazes me that I graded certain cards NM or NMMT, 5 years or even five months ago.

dbj77

Good point Frazier, but then again I'm paying these people good money not to be like you and I, that is they are still supposed to be impartial even after looking at their 100th copy of my Ken Griffey Rookies I've sent in. I realize we're all human, but I pay auto mechanics to be good at fixing my car as I pay graders to be good at grading my cards.

downgoesfrazier

I understand. I truly do...and I agree with you. It is just an excercise--nothing more. In addition, unlike an auto mechanic, I truly believe that I am superior to many of the professional graders that they employ....without question in the years that I specialize in. The rub is that my opinion to date doesn't add value to mine or anyone elses cards...theirs does. Hence the premium on the service. I also love the preservation/presentation aspects of the holder (anyone with kids between 0-3 will understand this). You'd get far more accurate and consistent results with me grading your cards, but if you tell Chris Renaud you've got a '71 Perez in a "frazier 9" I doubt he'll bite I feel your pain.

Virtualizard

<< <i>... You'd get far more accurate and consistent results with me grading your cards, but if you tell Chris Renaud you've got a '71 Perez in a "frazier 9" I doubt he'll bite I feel your pain. >>



I'd bite on the '71 Perez graded "frazier 9". Let me know when the "frazier set registry" is up and running.

JEB.

jackstraw

do you have any frazier 9's from the 76 set????

downgoesfrazier

Straw,
All of my "Frazier 9's" are in my set ...when I get some extras (this summer when I get time I have to pay a buddy a visit who broke a vending case last fall and has yet to search the commons)...then we'll have our bi-centennial celebration. If you ever get a chance, you've gotta check out Franks Smith's 76's...whew! Clean as they come.

The "Frazier Set Evaluation Table" or "F-SET" is coming soon!!!!

GATOR5

Frazier,

When is the fruru 81 donruss going to take place!!!

jackstraw

um i look at that set every day i have talked to him about you him and i starting a grading company and of course i will be the head grader over looking you two rookies
frank has a great eye yours is ok also but mine got the 1 and only 76 rice in the 1 and only psa 9 holder on the planet


i might be swayed to the "F-SET" if i get a sweet deal on the cross over's and the holders meet my liking

downgoesfrazier

Matt,
81D...already underway. Fruru's 81's...gonna be big!

Straw,
I promise to leave the web address off the flip You're not gonna get me to crack that Rice "96"...it looks real sharp and safe right where it is. If I ever sell it you and Frank would have to each own it for 6 months out of the year It will never go to eBay. Maybe Frank will get the Parker and you get the Rice...Anyway, that set of yours is coming along great! I'm still lookin' for a killer "Bull"!

jackstraw

phil,
i don't even have a raw example of the BULL or Torre would pay a premium for both i did get a real nice lynn that is dripping and centered
did you crack that 77 SGC 96 BULL ? and what's this a 76 parker ????? i want it and then find me a foster,simmons,oglive and dan ford.
i like the sgc holders but if you could come up with a silver label to put over that ugly green and white label, maybe you could be a fourth party grading service.

Late1970sTopps

John:

I just entered the balance of the new 76's in my set last night. Eleven new cards from what is showing on the registry today. I also have six duplicate 9's that aren't showing in your set. Interested?

Phil:

I thought you told me that I was getting both the Rice and the Parker and that if John was ever to ask me about it I was to deny all knowledge? What happened?

Frank

jackstraw

frank
email me the numbers and we will talk. i would love to get to 50% of the set in 9 and i am about 20 cards short. will you accept pennies for payment

phil
i will give you a dollar more than frank for the parker

gator?
is that your 81 set that is all 10's??if it is can we have viewing hours or something?

GATOR5

Straw.

It will be open for viewing soon!!! Couple more deals to close then I'll
unleash the guru's finest..I'm looking for a couple of more stars that
I'd care not to get ran up on then I'm happy with what I have in 10's..

Email me at rmorse@accn.org


Matt

downgoesfrazier

Yes, Frank, you are correct...my bad. I'm sending both cards to Daniel to see if he can clone them. Man, did you miss a great feast tonight over here!


Straw,
I didn't crack the 77 Bull...still resides in the SGC holder. I purchased one off-line from Colt MClelland...it is the finest copy I've ever seen. How it didn't 10 is beyond both of us. A premium copy for sure. Colt is a great guy and top-notch seller. He is pretty fussy about what he ships west and it shows. I have the Torre from '76...we'll have to add that to the list of cards that Frank and I know nothing about

GATOR5

Frazier,

81 donruss are on the table up here in gatorland for the corners are pins yet after
further inspection the plates are just a touch off. Though this looks like it could be
fun going shopping on monday for 81 donruss. Landed another 40 unique #'s on the
topps today pretty geared. Rollinnn rollinnn on the 81's...Any ideas on where to go
shopping..