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Washington set gone, ... now what?
mansco
Posts: 229 ✭
I recently put my silver Washington Quarter set on consignment. I decided to sell for a few reasons:
1. I felt I had too much of my net worth tied up in coins that wouldn't provide a decent investment return over the next decade.
2. To make the Washington set a better investment, I thought I would have to upgrade most of the the MS66s to MS67s. This would have been 90-95% of the set, essentially this is an option now.
3. Like too much of the rest of my coins, I accumulated the coins in the set rather than define a set that would take more time and when finished would be more of an accomplishment with focus on the particular series, rarity amongst collections, INVESTMENT POTENTIAL, and appeal.
I plan on selling my $20 Saints, $20 Liberties, and Morgan dollars in the near future, as well as the modern Washingtons, Roosies, Franklins, Kennedys, and Ikes.
I'm looking for suggestions. I plan on keeping my Commems. although I'm thinking about upgrading the early commems. If I can't come up with something interesting then I'll probably just focus on a type set.
Your thoughts and suggestions would be appreciated. I'm just looking for some ideas...on a reasonable, but not skimpy budget.
1. I felt I had too much of my net worth tied up in coins that wouldn't provide a decent investment return over the next decade.
2. To make the Washington set a better investment, I thought I would have to upgrade most of the the MS66s to MS67s. This would have been 90-95% of the set, essentially this is an option now.
3. Like too much of the rest of my coins, I accumulated the coins in the set rather than define a set that would take more time and when finished would be more of an accomplishment with focus on the particular series, rarity amongst collections, INVESTMENT POTENTIAL, and appeal.
I plan on selling my $20 Saints, $20 Liberties, and Morgan dollars in the near future, as well as the modern Washingtons, Roosies, Franklins, Kennedys, and Ikes.
I'm looking for suggestions. I plan on keeping my Commems. although I'm thinking about upgrading the early commems. If I can't come up with something interesting then I'll probably just focus on a type set.
Your thoughts and suggestions would be appreciated. I'm just looking for some ideas...on a reasonable, but not skimpy budget.
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Comments
commonly collected by date/mm) coins would be really nice. You'd have:
1) the enjoyment of the variety of designs,
2) the thrill of the hunt in finding the right coins at the right prices, and
3) most likely a decent long-term investment, assuming that you do well in step 2, above
Coins like these are always in demand, and your investment is diversified among all series.
Ken
Everyone has a different view of what is going to be a great investment. I would only recommend that you choose a collecting area you enjoy, as it has been said before, the thrill of the chase is most of the fun. Trying to outguess the coin market as to what will go up is somewhat akin to predicting interest rates. Keys in popular series seem to always do well, perhaps a type set using keys for some dates would be of interest. Good luck in your endeavors.
Wash quarter collecting "at the very top levels" now requires very "deep pockets" and it makes perfect sense to me to be concerned if a serious % of ones money is tied up in one thing such as this.
Incidently, where were your coins consigned to? I'll keep an eye out on them.
Wondercoin
Thanks for your comments. I'm not looking to invest in coins. But I do want to focus on something that will have its value and also be desirable to other collectors when I no longer want. My experience has shown me that I'd be better off keeping desirablity by others when I'm putting a set together rather than simply accumulating something because I can finish it.
I would agree that coins are not the best place to "invest" if that's going to represent a large portion of your assets. What I am saying is that, it no longer makes sense to me to buy any coin that I don't believe I'll be able to sell when I want to sell it. In other words, I've concluded that rarity and quality are far more important than quantity. I have a nice Morgan set. It's fun to have and to add to, but when it comes time to sell, there are a few pieces that will have significant demand, but most of the coins are commodities that are fairly common. Anyone can buy one, not because of price, but because there are so many. What I'm trying to find is something that will be a challenge? By challenge I mean you have to search for them and not necessary have deep pockets to obtain. But once you've collected it there should be others also searching for the coins.
I know my diatribe may sound confusing, but what I was trying to solicit were some ideas and alternatives to a type set and commems. I've been think of Trade dollars in MS 62-64, Buffalo nickels in 63-65, Seated denominations. But trying to get a few thoughts and iseas before I settle on something.
For me, the fun is in the chase as much as anything.
I got caught up in the getting to the top of the Registry game without focus on qualityand without thinking out what I was doing. My goal was to reach the top 5 without doing my homework. I had some great coins and a lot of common ones. I was focusing on MS66's and didn't realize that the I should have focused on MS67's for the bulk of the set.
While I'm in no position to put tens of thousands into a set, I'm just looking for ideas. (I'm not too excited by moderns anymore either....my definition is 1965 and later rather than 1932, though).
it makes perfect sense to me to be concerned if a serious % of ones money is tied up in one thing such as this.
Am I misconstuing this statement to mean that you dont think Washington quarters are a good coin "investment".
As you know, I dont collect much else than these quarters. Until I finish my the series, I didnt want to divert any of my money to other coins and then not have the money I need to finish my quality set (going on 3+ years).
Quarters are not my only investments. But it is my only coin investments. My feeling is. if you buy the quality then you should be able to get a good percentage of your money back and perhaps even turn a profit. I try to buy the best quality I can find without paying stupid money.
So Mitch, I was wondering what your statement meant.
MANSCO - Good luck with whatever your coin endeavors are!! Whynot try Seated Quarters? I am sure that there will be a spill over from the Washington collectors who do not like moderns (as you put it.. 65 though the State series.
WWQ
I'm leaning toward completing my type set and upgrading the commems. Seated quarters are on my radar screen, but I'm not sure of how big the following would be. The Washington quarters were fun, but when I reached the top ten I felt as though I had a world class set, the I compared it to Dolga's set and mine didn't look so good. Then Walser blew by everybody and my set looked like the Toledo Mudhens compared to Walser's set. It was less fun after that point. I realized I couldn't compete unless I started all over again...so I'm going to start over, just can't decide on what.
My experience with Washington's was very much like yours. I had about 20% in 67, with most of the rest in 66. A few of the keys in 64 and 65. I was frustrated that much was too common, even the 67s in some dates. With the increase in pops, I felt much would get even more common. Seemed to me that the prices of much of what I owned would go down. Also, the leaders were blowing by. I didn't really want to upgrade most of my pieces to 67. Finally, I didn't really like Washington quarters all that much. After putting together such a long set, I was frankly getting tired of them. I sold most of the pieces last January, and haven't looked back since. Exact same story with my mint state Franklin set which I sold 2 years ago now. ALthough I have keep and upgraded my Franklin proof set as I really like these pieces.
Kind of felt the same about my 1/2 complete Walker set. Some of the coins are IMHO good values, but many were also too common. Also, the length and cost of a nice set really were getting limiting. So, I decided to sell the more common pieces and hold on to what I think are the good values. All in all, I am finding that I am not really geared to collecting 20th century coins by date and mintmark.
So, what to do. I love type collecting, both 19th and 20th century. The key for me is to buy better dates with low pops in as good a condition as I can afford. If you don't have to buy every single coin in the series, you can try to analyze and buy the better values, and better coins. You also have a very interesting set when finished.
I do have a complete set of mint state Liberty Nickels. I like these coins and I think with a few exceptions they are still magnificent values in MS65 and MS66 (perhaps in other grades as well). Other sets I would consider are proof Barber quarters or proof Seated quarters or halves. They seem like great values and are nice looking coins. Also, the proofs are similar rarity and price. Each one can be sold separately as a type piece if necessary.
Good hunting.
Greg
Am I misconstuing this statement to mean that you dont think Washington quarters are a good coin "investment".
WWQ: My comment was directed at Mansco who stated his specific concern that a large % of his assets were tied up in his Wash quarter set. I would have written the same comment to him if the bulk of his assets were tied up in Colonials, patterns, hog bellies or aluminum futures
It's no secret that I have a wonderful collection of both silver Wash quarters and 19th century pattern nickels. Obviously, each collection makes sense to me personally to own, but, even on its face, you can see that the (2) collections are quite diversified and distinct vis a vis each other. It is entirely possible that the coin market could "tank" on one collection, but not the other, or the market could "soar" on one collection, but not the other (or nothing could happen for decades with either collection, or they both could "tank"). Who really knows what will happen down the road - what would happen if "Bill Gates" took a liking to pattern nickels or Wash. quarters? On the other hand, what would happen if the entire economy tanked? I truly do not spend nearly anytime thinking about either scenario (although admittedly my wife does) - if I did, I probably wouldn't own either collection very long.
Wondercoin
I don't regret letting go of my Washingtons at all, although it took me about a half year to reach that point. It sound like you were at where I am now. While the moderns are easy to complete, I just can't keep my excitement regarding them. I collect the modern commems only because their are different coin designs and I consider them an extension to any complete type set. But the other clads just can't keep my interest. I'll probably be selling them all shortly.
I think 19th century coinage is more interesting, but complete sets are next to impossible in mint state grades except maybe some of the obsolete denominations. I'm thinking that if I can liquidate most of my collection that a nice copper, nickel, silver AND gold type set is the way to go. I like your twist of seeking low pops for many types.
Thanks. (P.S. Has anyone at McKinley talked to Lois in my office lately?)
I understand about tying up a person's total assets in one specific series. However I did not read where Mansco had a large percentage of his assets in Washington quarters.
As a matter of fact, in reviewing his Registry entries, I would say that is hardly the case.
WWQ
he felt he had too much of my net worth tied up in coins that wouldn't provide a decent investment return over the next decade and that to make the Washington set a better investment, he thought he would have to upgrade most of the the MS66s to MS67s. If this didn't mean that Mansco felt he had too much of his net worth tied up in the quarter set, or what the quarter set needed to look like going forward, then I stand corrected.
Wondercoin.
1. I have a larger proportion of my net worth in my coin collection than I want to have. That's all coins, not just the Washingtons. Given the amount I have tied up, and what I have it tied up in, I didn't believe my expected return was competitive. So, my thinking is that no matter how much I have tied up in my coin portfolio, the contents ought to be such that I should expect to achieve a net return that is acceptable versus, if not competitive with, other investments. I don't expect to earn a double digit annualized return on my coins, but the thought of holding something for 5-7 plus years and losing money shouldn't be acceptable to any one who puts in more than a couple of thousand bucks, let alone a couple hundrend grand.
2. The Washington set consisted of predominately MS66 (except for the real biggies). I didn't think, given the pop levels that I was going to get much more out of the set than I put in it. Most of the top sets (Walser, etc.), I deemed to be far superior to mine.
3. I'm still collecting and I'm trying to get ideas from people who are knowledgeable, interested, and also collecting. I figure that if I had a few good ideas, it might help me narrow my focus....I wan't to collect everything.
With the substantial rise in prices in the past year, I could see why one would get a bit conservative with this series and try to turn to another undervalued set. Maybe roosies.. although Mansco appears to be heading to earlier dated coins.
It seems that some of the tougher dates, especially the early date MS67's command thousands and therefore, I would agree with Mansco about the dollar committment that would have to be made to compete with the Registry. If you set is not in the top ten, it wouldnt mean it would not be worthy as a good investment if the coins are of high quality (which is what I am building). But with Mansco's collection, buying the holder and not the coin, could prove costly in the end.
With the series in general, it is getting to the point that entry into the series, even for some early date MS66's (such as the 35S, 39S) it is getting tougher and tougher and will be wittled down to serious collectors. But I do believe there are enough serious collectors out there (there are 66 registry participants right now and many more collectors that dont participate) that the series definitely has more room to move.
MANSCO -- Did you ever think about pedigreeing certain coins or look to have a few upgraded? Or did you review the coins and decided they would not have a shot.
From the little I saw of the early dates, when you and I talked awhile back, most of the coins had some toning. Good luck with selling the collection. I will certainly keep my eyes out for it. I hope that you inform us of where we can buy some of those coins.
Best wishes,
WWQ
WWQ: Now, here is a surprising "turn of the cards" - you talking about the "substantial RISE in Wash quarter prices" and me reminding you that many prices have also fallen during the past year, some sharply
Forget Roosies IMHO unless you want to try to build the set from raw coins, which is still a neat idea - if they were "undervalued" before the announcement of FB, they sure aren't now
Wondercoin
I didn't pedigree. I qualified, but after reading some of the debates in the forum, I decided I would only pedigree if I was going to keep for a few years. When I decided I wasn't going to keep, I decided not to pedigree.
I sold the coins on consignment to David Lawrence in early March. I posted on the forum. They've done a good job for me. Only 19 out of 97 coins left.
Prices are still higher for the tougher dates than a year ago and probably still higher than Mansco's investment. Yes, the common dates are common and will always be. How many 1958's (11 currently listed on eBay) or 1958-D's (8 listed on eBay) in MS66 can you find anyday of the week.
But prices are coming down because the entry into the series requires a serious committment. Just look at ManofCoins auctions and the ever changing prices because the coins arent selling at the stupid money they were originally listed for.
I am still a buyer, but am waiting for the right coin(s) to purchase at other than stupid money. I am patient. I waited 3+ years to far.
WWQ
I applaud your patience. I built my set in a little less than 3 years. I thought it was going to take about 3 months. I think the set is a good investment with patience. I got my money out ( or I will ) of my set and that was after consignment commissions. If I had the wherewithal to market like David Lawrence, Iwould have turned a nice profit. Needless to say, I'm still happy with my decision.
Anyway, IMHO, $3150 is not actually that bad for a 50s/d in PCGS-MS66 if it is a nice coin (I assume this is one of the insane prices you were referring to?). In fact, I recently paid around $1700 or $1800 for an s/d in PCGS-MS65 at the Baltimore Bowers sale. Admittedly, the coin was a shot MS67 sitting in an MS65 holder and is already now sitting in a PCGS-MS66 holder, but, my point is a nice s/d in MS66 may be a steal at $3150 considering the next grade up WOULD COST YOU FIVE FIGURES IMHO.
OK- if you are referring to the 47(s) at $12k, I can't argue with you WWQ, but, I didn't realize you were also doing NGC quarters?
Anyway, prices have been all over the place with Wash quarters this past year, but, we totally agree that high quality specimens are still in strong demand and "bulk deal" commons in MS66 have continued to languish to no surprise.
Wondercoin
Cmon Mitch, we both know what I am talking about. The 41 MS67 is the first coin that Craig put up with no reserve or BIN. Maybe he is getting a bit wiser with his auction postings.
As for the 50s/d, you would certainly know better than me about the price for that particular coin. No one knows better than you what these coins go for.
WWQ