Bust Halves & Cleaning

PtAgAu

I'm considering beginning collecting bust halves - I really like the great amount of variations, especially the numerous amounts of restrikes as well as their great age. I have two questions about cleaning:

1. How to tell? Are there any tell-tale signs just by looking at an eBay scan? Many descriptions don't state anything about cleaning and others state they obviously don't know the coin's history. How about more toned coins, is this a better sign that the coin hasn't been cleaned?
2. Slabbing? If the bust was cleaned, is it true PCGS will not assign a grade to it or do they give it some other demarkation indicating it was cleaned?

Thanks,

--PtAgAu

Julian

My suggestion to you is to first define your collection. Is it going to be a date set, Red Book set, or what?

I do not understand your comment about restrikes.

It is important that you only purchase coins that you enjoy. Many halves have been dipped, some have been retoned. The condition should also be part of your definition.

The respected services do not encapsulate retoned or abrasively cleaned coins, intentionally. Mistakes happen and that is why that you have to be the final arbiter of condition and what fits into your collection.

Dabigkahuna

I have a few Bust halves in slabs. It kinda seems a shame though since you can't see the really cool lettering on the edge. On the other hand, most of these coins have been cleaned and you may be safer buying one that has been graded by a respected service.

I have seen where NGC is more likely to slab and grade the older coins with hairlines and "color" and seem to be more liberal than PCGS in this area.


Larry
Dabigkahuna

Max

Ptagau, figure 90+% of bust halves have been cleaned at one time. Some were lightly cleaned and they get slabbed by the 2 best slabbers, pcgs ngc.

The rest are harshly cleaned and will never be slabbed in our lifetime. Look at all the slabbed vs. unslabbed on ebay and you will see the difference. In person it is more dramatic.

lots o luck

ccr

I agree with Julian and do your homework. Doing so will take some time but, rewarding to your pocketbook and your enjoyment. Here`s some links that may be of some help. The first link has pop-ups but, it`s good and handy for a quick on-line look.

http://overdate1.tripod.com/coinvarieties/index.html

http://www.conecaonline.org/links.html

PtAgAu

Thanks for the replies. Sorry I meant to say "overstrike" and not restrike.

--PtAgAu

dorkkarl

let's make it simple: assume that every unc bust half has been cleaned, & you'll be fine

no, i am dead serious. i submit to you that fewer than 3 out of every 100 "unc" bust halves are original.

it's just the way it is, don't get hung up on it. plenty of the cleaning of bust halves happened > 50 years ago, & they have retoned nicely.

but i will say it w/out hesitation: ORIGINAL unc bust halves are very, very rare

K S

coinkat

I will offer the following advise:

1. Buy the Overton Book. It probably sells for $60-$75. It will be the best money that you will spent if your are serious about collecting Bust Halfs.

2. Buy a good loope.

3. Attend coin shows and look at the Bust Halfs in person before you bid on ebay and learn to grade and appreciate the series for what it is. It is difficult to rely on a scan, so become familiar with the coins and how they are graded first. If you see something on ebay that is too good to be true, well...

3. Upon examining the coins, look closely for signs of cleaning such as hairlines, the look of the surfaces, including the color and tone and whether the coin looks original. Dorkkarl is right, a high percent of these coins have been cleaned, dipped or enhanced. Decide for yourself how you what to collect them and whether that is going to be an issue for you.

4. If originality is important to you (personally, it is to me...) don't get caught up in cutting corners because quality coins are worth reaching for and junk is not.

5. Have fun and don't be afraid to ask dealers questions at shows. The questions that you ask and the answers you get will help you decide which dealers will be the best sources for coins you are looking for.

6. One thing that I have done that can help you in your search that I recommend doing...If you have an example of a bust half that is in the grade you prefer and like the coin, don't be afraid to bring the coin with you and show it to the dealer. I know this sounds unusual, but it can cut through the crap and it sends a message to the dealer that you are a buyer and this is an example of what you are looking for. It helps and saves time.

Good luck with your search and post some threads with questions and pictures of your acquistions.

morganbarber

As usual, Dorkkarl is right. THEY HAVE ALL BEEN CLEANED. Of course, all absolute statements ar false. Finding the original ones can make you a very wealthy Bust Half fan. There are many, many, VF-AU58s which were cleaned a long time ago and are still magnificent. BU, uncleaned, specimens are so sweet and rare that I cannot even consider them.

Nysoto

Another excellent book is "Bust Half Fever 1807 - 1836" by Edgar Souders, 1995, Money Tree Press. Edgar writes extensively on the "dark side" of bust half collecting - whizzed, cleaned, altered, AT, etc. He also describes minting processes, and reviews each date for strike characteristics and rarity. This is not an attribution book like Overton, but will definitely help bust half collectors of all levels.

As others have said, the best way to learn is to observe as many busties as you can at shows. Ebay is not the best place to buy, in most cases.

dorkkarl

also, get any of logan's books on bust material, whether it be half-dimes, dimes. the background info he gives on these is priceless, & applicable across all the denom's.

K S

coinkat

While I have to agree the vast majority of Bust Halfs have been cleaned or enhanced, there is still a population of original coins that exists out there that is worth searching for if you are serious about the series.