Error Help-------picture finally posted.

keets · April 18, 2003 5:03AM

I guess I hang out at the local shop too much!! Today I came across a neat error and wanted some help determining value, collectibility and which service, if any, I should have certify the coin. It's a Bicentennial Silver Washington Proof with a reverse rotated close to 180 degrees. Can anyone help me out?? Thanks.

Al H.

MadMonk · April 18, 2003 5:05AM

Wow, I don't know...Did you buy it, or are you looking to see if the price is fair?
I would think/hope that any drastic error, like a 180 degree rotated reverse, would have strong collector following.

AquilaRose · April 18, 2003 5:11AM

Double Wow! I would think an Error collector would want that in their collection. 180 degrees is a lot!

keets · April 18, 2003 5:13AM

hey monk

the owner bought a collection and i was looking through before his helper 2x2'd everything. i know die rotation isn't that uncommon, what struck me is that it was a proof and the rotation is such a drastic amount.

al h.

MadMonk · April 18, 2003 5:19AM

you might be hip to this, but if not, maybe a step in the right direction

http://www.minterrornews.com/

jonesy · April 18, 2003 5:26AM

I'd jump on it if I were you!!

Glenn

VonZipper · April 18, 2003 5:30AM

I cant remember when the mint changed the minting process for sure I thing early 90-80's that this rarely occurs after that time frame, but I think it's not to uncommon back then. Anyone know for sure? Sorry can't be more help keets.

Dog97 · April 18, 2003 12:59PM

180 degrees is normal. That means the rev is upside down when the obv is right side up.
I take it you mean 0 degrees or medallic rotation where the tops & bottom both point the same way? If so that is a nice error. Not extremely valuable but will have a premium.

lordmarcovan · April 18, 2003 1:13PM

I think he meant rotated 180 degrees from the normal position.

Dog97 · April 18, 2003 2:50PM

Yeah, me too. I know 0 degrees is normal for you DarkSide guys.

nucklehead · April 18, 2003 3:27PM

You should buy it,I would.I like rotated reverse errors.

sinin1 · April 18, 2003 4:11PM

You guys are looking at it wrong - it is the obverse that is rotated.

cladking · April 19, 2003 12:48AM

Geocity's rotated die coin census calls it an R-7 (4-12) known. Though they
also call it 135 degree rotation. It is most assuredly not common (I've never
seen one), but there are likely more than have been reported.

jonesy · April 19, 2003 1:04AM

Is it rotated 180 to the left or to the right?

keets · May 23, 2003 9:27PM

ttt

i finally managed to link up a picture of the coin.

al h.

ursabear · May 23, 2003 11:40PM

Keets,

This is just a collector's opinion, not an error expert's opinion... JIMHO

I like it. I think the fact that it is just off 180 from normal makes it more special. The fact that it is a bicentennial, and especially the fact that it is a proof makes it more interesting to me as a collector. I wish I could help you with price... None of my search-able resources have anything like it.

misterR · May 23, 2003 11:48PM

I would guesstimate its' value at $400+. Nice find! I knew of those and have looked for years, never found one, not yet!

keets · August 9, 2003 9:17AM

i wanted to post that the quarter was graded by NGC at PF67CAM with the degree of rotation listed on the insert. the coin was submitted under the error service with the degree of rotation noted on the submission form.

al h.

trozau · August 9, 2003 9:24AM

If they were both right side up, it would be 180 degrees rotated. Your coin is actually less than 90 degrees rotated as shown. Still a cool coin.

lordmarcovan · August 9, 2003 9:42AM

I've got a bunch of coins that have reverses rotated that drastically.

I always seem to put 'em down on the scanner bed all crooked!

keets · August 9, 2003 9:51AM

hey Rob

this is a tough one not to reply to in defense of my intelligence!!! there is apparently some disagreement amongst the respondents as to the rotation of the reverse out of the normal position. i would assure everyone that i am not mistaken when i say rotated 135 degrees, as noted by cladking. my initial reference was "close to 180 degrees" which i think is accurate since it's certainly closer to that than 0 degrees or normal alignment.

in a way this all reminds me of a friend who says he knows enough Mexican to get his throat slit!!

al h.

trozau · August 9, 2003 10:08AM

My basis for the rotation being less than 90 degrees is that the norm is for the head of the drummer to be straight down. Rotating clock-wise, it is not even a full quarter of a circle rotated (a quarter circle rotation is 90 degrees and a half circle rotation is 180 degrees - the medal orientation or most world coin orientation). Hope the figure below helps to show what I mean.

RotatedRainbows · August 9, 2003 11:22AM

I always use a clock when trying to get an accurate estimate of rotation from someone with the top of the obverse being 12 o'clock and the top of the reverse being 6 o'clock. I think the confusion comes from the way the picture is displayed, Al has the picture showing how the coin looks when viewing the reverse in normal position as I do in the picture below. That is one nice thing about slabbed coins, it is very easy to tell what the rotation is if you have a picture showing the obverse and reverse of the coin in the slab.

trozau · August 9, 2003 11:34AM

Showing it in a slab with a clear orientation of both obverse and reverse, shows that it is indeed rotated more than 90 dgrees and less than 180 degrees. I stand corrected. My bad.

JLW · August 9, 2003 11:41AM

The slab pics do clear up the confusion for myself as well, the orientation of obverse to reverse is made clear. Thanks!
Joe

keets · August 9, 2003 12:10PM

ok guys

here's the picture that i posted with the thread starter. it is nearly identical in regards to orientation as the holdered coin. why was there any confusion?? i think where y'all get confused is in thinking that the drummer is centered on the coin when in actuality he is offset to the viewers right. to measure the rotation, the best reference point is the rim lettering which is symmetrical. that's what your eye should be judging rotation on.

al h.

trozau · August 9, 2003 1:11PM

For me, I expect that the reverse design is inverted in orientation with regards to the obverse (i.e. 'quarter dollar' would be inverted and on top). From the picture you posted, it appeared offset less than 90 degrees with that premise. I did not expect that you would have compensated for the 180 degree difference between the obvesre and reverse such that the normal coin shown on your orientation should have had both obverse and reverse designs being both the right side up. Clear as mud?

keets · August 9, 2003 1:37PM

what i did was depict the coin in exactly the same fashion as 99% of all pictured coins. typically, the obverse would be photographed and then the reverse is photographed as though the coin is flipped, north to south, resulting in the picture that i showed and the picture that the slab displays. they are identical. how can one make sense and one not make sense?? that doesn't make sense!!

in that manner, both sides appear right-side-up.

you guys need to give me the shadow of the doubt here and consider that i know how our coins are oriented and that i'm showing what i'm describing.

al h.

Error Help-------picture finally posted.

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