OT: Jadecoin, explain yourself to the rest of us . . .
DMWJR
Posts: 6,011 ✭✭✭✭✭
At the invitation of James and Dennis, I have started a new thread on this topic. Here are the basic circumstances.
WARNING: If you don’t want to read this, read some other posts.
I would have taken this issue into PM format, but there are SEVERAL members who are interested in finding out the truth of past events related to Jadecoin since they have decided to post regularly on the boards.
The facts that started this issue in August, 2002:
A board member recognized the 1795 dollar sold at a coin show to Jadecoin, as being doctored and appearing in an Ebay auction with no mention of the doctoring. This auction was under the seller name “earlycoins” and was purportedly a little old lady (Deb) who knew nothing about coins and was selling off her husband’s coin collection after he died (Harold). Jadecoin admitted to buying the coin from the board member, having the coin repaired and/or cleaned, and AT’ing it. At this point in time, Jadecoin alleges that they traded the coin to “Deb” and she sold it on Ebay. Jadecoin admitted selling this coin to "earlycoins," and claims he described the "doctoring" to her.
Dennis Tarrant of Jadecoin lives practically in the same neighborhood of Grand Rapids, MI with Deb Greenman. And they obviously know each other because of the transaction listed above. James Garcia of Jadecoin admits that he enhances coins alot of the time, hires a coin doctor to do some repairs, and AT’s the coins himself to make them look right. The people behind “earlycoins” are in serious doubt as to credibility, and whether are not they are in cahoots with Jadecoin.
When asked, Deb Greenman admitted that the coin wasn't really a part of dead Harold's "collection," but a part of his "estate" since allegedly traded some of dead Harold's coins for the coin in question.
As of March, 2003, “earlycoins” is still selling the same type of coins in the same manner, as a little old lady who alleges to know nothing about coins.
All coins sold by Jadecoin and Earlycoins were of the same genre and uncertified.
Jadecoin said they have no relationship with Earlycoins, but now Jadecoin’s website is www.earlyUScoins.com.
Quote by Dennis Tarrant and James Garcia from the dispute last August:
Finally, it's laughable to imply that we've hidden our selling activity on ebay! We originally sold under two separate handles and our individual feedback is perfect! Dennis and I merged companies a couple of years ago, thus the merged feedback that someone mentioned. AND we voluntarily unregistered our account per ebay procedures. To put it bluntly, we LOST money selling on ebay, which is why we bailed on it.
Jadecoin History of ID’s on Ebay:
James Garcia operating under “Wildorchyd” from 2-22-99 to 8-30-99, “user merged with Jadecoin”
Dennis Tarrant operating under “Jadecoin” from 3-15-99 to 3/9/02 (user suspended)
Dennis Tarrant also operating under “Jadecoins” from 4-7-99 to 11-11-99; user merged, but don’t know with whom
Gap of activity from 3-9-02 to 12-12-02 (suspension period maybe?)
Tarrant and Garcia currently operating under “earlyUS” from 12-12-02 to present
Latest Quote from Garcia andTarrant:
Eventually we decided to meet at a Chicago area show for a formal reunion and we started buying and selling coins together. Rather quickly, we decided that we should start a coin company. We formed Jade Coin Co, LLC in 1999. James came up with the name: "JA" for James and "DE" for Dennis. It could have been "Deja Coin Co", but that had a funny ring to it.. We merged our personal collections together to form our initial stock. It was a very modest and unpretentious inventory, to say the least!
You were using the “Jadecoin” Ebay handle as of 3-15-00, which means “James and Dennis,” so you knew that you were doing business together.
Further, you didn’t set up Jade Coin Company, LLC as a registered Michigan LLC until August 29, 2000, a year and a half after you were doing business on Ebay as “jadecoin.”
Between March 15, 1999 and August 3, 1999, you guys left the following feedback to yourselves:
Apr-20-99 1:18:37 PST
Praise: quick transaction, coins were much better than described, recommended very highly!
Apr-26-99 03:43:25 PST 91488600
Praise : Top gentleman, scholar, businessman. Much depth/breadth of numismatic knowledge!
Apr-26-99 08:23:59 PST 91488600
Praise: SUPERIOR customer, extraordinary coin savvy, a definite pleasure to deal with
May-12-99 02:58:18 PST
Praise: Truly a phenomenal customer, recognizes excellence in coin quality and packaging
Aug-03-99 05:49:46 PST
Praise: delivered coin in person, PHENOMENAL SELLER, eBay’s BEST, Thanks Dennis!
_____________________________
Before you go nuts, this is all public information gained through your selling pages on EBay, and the public records on-line from the State of Michigan.
Please explain, and clarify any points I have gotten wrong.
WARNING: If you don’t want to read this, read some other posts.
I would have taken this issue into PM format, but there are SEVERAL members who are interested in finding out the truth of past events related to Jadecoin since they have decided to post regularly on the boards.
The facts that started this issue in August, 2002:
A board member recognized the 1795 dollar sold at a coin show to Jadecoin, as being doctored and appearing in an Ebay auction with no mention of the doctoring. This auction was under the seller name “earlycoins” and was purportedly a little old lady (Deb) who knew nothing about coins and was selling off her husband’s coin collection after he died (Harold). Jadecoin admitted to buying the coin from the board member, having the coin repaired and/or cleaned, and AT’ing it. At this point in time, Jadecoin alleges that they traded the coin to “Deb” and she sold it on Ebay. Jadecoin admitted selling this coin to "earlycoins," and claims he described the "doctoring" to her.
Dennis Tarrant of Jadecoin lives practically in the same neighborhood of Grand Rapids, MI with Deb Greenman. And they obviously know each other because of the transaction listed above. James Garcia of Jadecoin admits that he enhances coins alot of the time, hires a coin doctor to do some repairs, and AT’s the coins himself to make them look right. The people behind “earlycoins” are in serious doubt as to credibility, and whether are not they are in cahoots with Jadecoin.
When asked, Deb Greenman admitted that the coin wasn't really a part of dead Harold's "collection," but a part of his "estate" since allegedly traded some of dead Harold's coins for the coin in question.
As of March, 2003, “earlycoins” is still selling the same type of coins in the same manner, as a little old lady who alleges to know nothing about coins.
All coins sold by Jadecoin and Earlycoins were of the same genre and uncertified.
Jadecoin said they have no relationship with Earlycoins, but now Jadecoin’s website is www.earlyUScoins.com.
Quote by Dennis Tarrant and James Garcia from the dispute last August:
Finally, it's laughable to imply that we've hidden our selling activity on ebay! We originally sold under two separate handles and our individual feedback is perfect! Dennis and I merged companies a couple of years ago, thus the merged feedback that someone mentioned. AND we voluntarily unregistered our account per ebay procedures. To put it bluntly, we LOST money selling on ebay, which is why we bailed on it.
Jadecoin History of ID’s on Ebay:
James Garcia operating under “Wildorchyd” from 2-22-99 to 8-30-99, “user merged with Jadecoin”
Dennis Tarrant operating under “Jadecoin” from 3-15-99 to 3/9/02 (user suspended)
Dennis Tarrant also operating under “Jadecoins” from 4-7-99 to 11-11-99; user merged, but don’t know with whom
Gap of activity from 3-9-02 to 12-12-02 (suspension period maybe?)
Tarrant and Garcia currently operating under “earlyUS” from 12-12-02 to present
Latest Quote from Garcia andTarrant:
Eventually we decided to meet at a Chicago area show for a formal reunion and we started buying and selling coins together. Rather quickly, we decided that we should start a coin company. We formed Jade Coin Co, LLC in 1999. James came up with the name: "JA" for James and "DE" for Dennis. It could have been "Deja Coin Co", but that had a funny ring to it.. We merged our personal collections together to form our initial stock. It was a very modest and unpretentious inventory, to say the least!
You were using the “Jadecoin” Ebay handle as of 3-15-00, which means “James and Dennis,” so you knew that you were doing business together.
Further, you didn’t set up Jade Coin Company, LLC as a registered Michigan LLC until August 29, 2000, a year and a half after you were doing business on Ebay as “jadecoin.”
Between March 15, 1999 and August 3, 1999, you guys left the following feedback to yourselves:
Apr-20-99 1:18:37 PST
Praise: quick transaction, coins were much better than described, recommended very highly!
Apr-26-99 03:43:25 PST 91488600
Praise : Top gentleman, scholar, businessman. Much depth/breadth of numismatic knowledge!
Apr-26-99 08:23:59 PST 91488600
Praise: SUPERIOR customer, extraordinary coin savvy, a definite pleasure to deal with
May-12-99 02:58:18 PST
Praise: Truly a phenomenal customer, recognizes excellence in coin quality and packaging
Aug-03-99 05:49:46 PST
Praise: delivered coin in person, PHENOMENAL SELLER, eBay’s BEST, Thanks Dennis!
_____________________________
Before you go nuts, this is all public information gained through your selling pages on EBay, and the public records on-line from the State of Michigan.
Please explain, and clarify any points I have gotten wrong.
Doug
0
Comments
you lost me with your first line. Jadecoin asked you to post this??? why?
Both of those guys are great to deal with from my experience but I must admit I was intrigued at all of the info members on here dug up.
If earlycoin is jadecoin then I think they should just come clean to us.
- jade
PS: Sorry to muddle up this thread. Doug if you want, you can start up a separate thread.
Doug, I originally understood your complaint (from the other thread) to be that we were selling doctored coins without disclosing the coins' problems, but it seems that you have a lot more on your plate than just that. So by all means, let's get it resolved once and for all.
Also, though, I would expect that if we answer all of your questions acceptably, you would be willing to apologize for leveling any false accusations that may have been made, whether intentionally or by accident.
- jadecoin
jadecoin, since you replied "Doug, I originally understood your complaint" you are one or........well, you know what i mean. who exactly is PCGS Forum member jadecoin?? stand and be recognized!!
al h.
So give me some proof. The facts about your user ID's and feedback came right off your feedback pages. The quotes came right off these boards. The date of formation of your LLC came of the State of Michigan's web page. "Part" of your relationship with "earlycoin" came right off of your posts on these boards.
Everytime I read a post you make, I can't help but think about the issues that have been raised in the past regarding your conduct. According to PM's that I have gotten, I'm not alone. That's why I decided to make this post, tell you why I questioned what you do, and give you the opportunity to change my opinion.
So here's your chance whether it is your final post on this or not. I hope you get it all cleared up in one post.
They might be grat guys to deal with in person but on ebay watch out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Buyer B says "I believe you" and thinks "I'm going to rip your eyes out".
Seller A laughs all the way to the bank.
Buyer B complains on these boards.
Do you have more respect for A or B? Just curious...
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
a lot of liars. Find a good dealer and be loyal to them. You will be glad you did.
Rusty
Can anybody verify the dates of this coin show where JA and DE supposedly came together?
I think though for a seasoned person it's easy to see through many of these "Estate Sales" on ebay but for the average buyer it's their natural inclination to believe what people tell them. At least until they get burned a few times. "Burn me once shame on you, burn me twice shame on me."
Deb's last sale feedback -- Read the description!!!!! Brings back lots of memories !!!!
<< <i>with their pants down >>
WHERE????
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
<< <i> read Deb's listing when I have trouble sleeping, it keeps me from having to take those nasty barbituates. Is that relevant to this thread? >>
Not sure, but I've had trouble sleeping for almost 12 years, You share?
It looks like Harold was a stamp collector too. Not a smart one though because everybody knows you don't store mint sheets in a damp basement.
Thanks for posting Deb's last ebay sale. What a bunch of garbage.
Booh Hoohhh!!!!! I'm overwhelmed with the sob story. I already used 2 boxes of Kleenex.
Sad thing is, there are people out there who got suckered by this nonsense.
I remember that some people here on the forum bought coins from Deb over the past year. Let's hear from them about their experience. Also, Doug, you keep trying to draw a parallel between Jade Coin, Inc. and Deb, but everytime Jade responds in an intelligent manner, you, and everyone, just seems to ignore what they say. This is a mob mentality at it's best (or worst).
Let's face it, I am the first to attack someone who is a slimey dealer, but I have done business with Jade before and those guys are always some of the most friendly people at a show. They have nice material and are very, very fair. Anybody else here done business with Jade Coin, Inc.?
Ebay speak:
1)"Estate sale" = shi tty coins that I bought last week and have been soaking them in acid to freshen them up.
2)"Husbands collection" = shi tty coins that I bought last week and have been soaking them in acid to freshen them up.
3)"Selling these for a lifetome collector" = shi tty coins that I bought last week and have been soaking them in acid to freshen them up.
4) Long time collection that haven't seen the light of day in decades" = shi tty coins that I bought last week and have been soaking them in acid to freshen them up.
Sorry, not relevant to your post, just thought I would get that off my chest
Tyler
My comments were not relevant to the post. Did you read that?? They were humorous andectotes about ebay in general. I have seen Deb's auctions. They were not aimed at her, just Ebay in General.
NumisEd - no harm done.
Doug, I don't defend anybody. I just try to be very open minded and objective. If someone is wrong, I will state my opinion. If someone is right, I will also state my opinion. I think that you have not been very objective at all in your quest to attack Jade Coin, Inc. and apparently there must be a reason for it. Why don't you ever respond to any of their responses to you? If you would just make your posts in a more logical and professional manner, then you would have more credibility.
Did you live in Salem, Massachussetts in a past life. Let's say, oh I don't know, around 1650 or thereabouts?????
This whole thing came up when a board member spotted a 1795 dollar that they had sold to Jadecoin, showing up on "Deb's" aution, and it had been repaired. The repairs were not disclosed in the auction. Jadecoin said they specifically told "Deb" that the coin was repaired. Jadecoin came on and said they had the repairs done. Jadecoin and "Deb" have some kind of relationship, although Jadecoin won't disclose what. "Deb Greeman" is either a ficticious name, or the story is a lie, or both. There is no recorded death of a "Harold Greenman" in Michigan. There is a Deb Greenman living in the area, who is not "a little old lady."
Jadecoin continued to defend "Deb," and continued to defend repaired or altered coins. I don't like it when people repair, doctor or alter coins, because I suspect that 9 times out of 10 they ultimately end up in the hands of an unscrupulous seller who will palm them off to an unsuspecting buyer.
Jadecoin's known and admitted relationship with "Deb" raises suspicion about Jadecoin. Add that to all of the Ebay handle changes and the self-dealing with feedback, and it certainly leaves me with questions about their credibility. I am not the only one. Since Jadecoin continues to post on these boards, I would like an answer. No, they don't have to answer, and I have not bombarded them with accusations every time they post. If they want to clear up these suspicions with those on the Boards who want to know, then they should respond.
Wouldn't you want an opportunity to clear your name???
PS: Salem witch trials were in 1692.
K S
this is sure to be good!
K S
It just seems that collectors hate dealers, no matter what, and will look for any excuse to jump on the bandwagon to smear them. Don't get me wrong, some dealers deserve it, but I don't think that we should bash them publicly unless you have some real world experience, such as a dealer screwed you. I have only a slight problem with those types of threads, but not a major problem. Those types of problems should be handled between the dealer and the collector.
Trust me on this, it is not hard to get a judgement for slanderous allegations.
I'm not defending or taking sides, just wanted to let you all know this so that when we all start talking about someone's character, or company's business or how they conduct their business, we really need to tread lightly.