Any BGS crossover eyes out there?

1420sports · April 17, 2003 10:36AM

I have been looking for a nice PSA 8 of this card for some time and have never seen one this nice outside of a PSA 9 holder. What are the chances this crosses over to the same grade? Or higher ...

1971 Rose

That card is amazing and even though I have absolutley no chance of winning it, I wanted to get some opinion as I have some very crazy thoughts of making one HUGE purchase before I get married.

7orbetter · April 17, 2003 10:49AM

sheet cut card, would be a PSA reject.

1420sports · April 17, 2003 11:08AM

Thanks, please explain as you are the second person to tell me about those.

Virtualizard · April 17, 2003 11:11AM

7orbetter,

The '71 set is one of the only '60s-'70's sets that I haven't collected yet in PSA graded form. From the scan of that card, what leads you to believe that it is a sheet cut card? It looks really nice to me (i.e. worthy of a "mint" grade). Are '71 sheet cut cards common? I don't search for them, but I would have thought that someone would have posted here if there was an uncut sheet available and I haven't ever seen any on ebay or elsewhere. I just don't see any evidence from the scan. I, as well as others (I'd presume), would like to know what to look for.

Thanks.

JEB.

jackstraw · April 17, 2003 11:19AM

the edges are usually a dead give away. if the look like they were cut with a laser and not with what was available in 1971 then yes i would say it was cut from a sheet. looking at the rose i would say yes it was cut. another dead give away is when the card is actually in your hand it doesnt curl it just lays flat.
i have three bgs 9's crossover in my 76 set and i still to this day think they are sheet cut cards. your best bet is to crack it out and send it in yourself because if you send it in the bgs holder i got 10 bucs it comes back trimmed.

zardoz51 · April 17, 2003 11:43AM

I'll take $100 of the action.

Neal.

Trust me on this.

Edited to add:

Sheets used to be really common. They are kinda scarce now. Gee, I wonder why?

jackstraw · April 17, 2003 11:57AM

i got one large one that this is cut from a sheet

mcastaldi · April 17, 2003 12:03PM

Straw> Are you saying OPCs didn't have nice clean cuts like that in 1974?

Mike

jackstraw · April 17, 2003 12:10PM

as much as i like the crispness of the photos on any opc's. i have to say they were not cut with a laser by no canadian more like a chain saw "eh".

ydsotter · April 17, 2003 12:38PM

I have had bad luck trying to crossover BGS/BVG graded cards to psa.
On the contrary, I have had pretty good luck crossing over SGC cards.
I have only crossed over a handful either way...
...but it's been enough to put a little scare in me... the only bgs graded cards I really buy now are 1990+ and relatively inexpensive.

I do not have the eye to tell whether that rose is a sheet cut card or not... however, if it were me, I think it would be worth the extra hundred or few hundred more for the psa.
Eventhough the beckett graded card may appear high end... it means everything that it is authentic... and my recent experiences would make me shy away from trusting that it is authentic.
-G

bengineno9 · April 17, 2003 12:48PM

No experience with 71's.
But recently i had a 1968 Topps Tony Larussa BVG 8.5 crossover to a PSA 9.

BEN

Beeker · April 17, 2003 1:48PM

With as many high grade BVG 71 stars I've seen on ebay this year, all from the first series, there's no way I'd gamble on that Rose. I had a 71 Phil Niekro from that series, BVG 8.5 with 9.0 or 9.5 corners & edges. I cracked it out, sent it to PSA, and they labeled it trimmed. I looked at the edges under magnification and compared them to my PSA 71s. Even under 20x, the Niekro edges were perfect. Edges on factory cut cards look rough under 20x magnification, even on a high grade card.

I don't think this card will sell for anywhere near the SMR for a PSA 9.

1420sports · April 17, 2003 7:45PM

Paul, I still have nightmares about losing the 71 you had a few months ago

- That one was the one that got away.

It seems that I should lay off this card huh

1420sports · April 17, 2003 8:08PM

BTW - if anyone out there knows of a 1971 Rose PSA 8 or GAI 8 available, let me know. Thanks.

FB · April 17, 2003 9:22PM

But, since PSA is now offering the crossover service - wouldn't you be able to find out that it wouldn't cross over before having it cracked out? If so, you'd still have a BVG 9 to throw back on eBay.

Yzerman19C · April 17, 2003 9:45PM

One of the usual hints that a BGS card is cut from a sheet is the Surface subgrade will be at least a half to one full grade lower than the other subgrades. In the case of the 71 Rose it falls into this category.

The 74 OPC Munson however does not but i will say this theiceking(AJ cards owner Harvey) is a huge PSA collector himself and seller so he certainly knows the value that this card would have in a PSA holder. So for it to be in a BGS/BVG holder it obviously would not be graded by PSA

Randy

mikeschmidt · April 17, 2003 10:12PM

Neal:

Just to reiterate what has been said before, in other posts, etc.:

You can typically tell on the surface subgrade (as mentioned previously in this post). Without seeing the breakdown of this Rose card, I would imagine it is something close to 9.5, 9.5, 9.5 and 8. Or maybe even a 10 on centering or edges. But on a BVG-graded card that is 8.5 or better -- if the surface grade is two subgrades below any other grade, that should be your #1 indication that the card might have problems.

If you bug me enough by e-mail, I can send you a plethora of examples of Schmidt sheet-cut cards from OPC from the 1970s and 1980s that have magically ended up in BGS/BVG holders.

aconte · April 17, 2003 10:23PM

MS,

Was that the case on the 1975 Schmidt graded BVG 8.5 a while back? I can't find the scan...

aconte

mikeschmidt · April 17, 2003 10:41PM

Aconte:

I was not tracking that one, so I do not recall. Someone had a 1976 Topps Schmidt BGS 9.5 -- but I thought the centering was atrocious for a supposedly GEM card, so I shied away from that one.

Interestingly -- I have a 1975 O-Pee-Chee Schmidt/Allen Leaders card graded BGS 8.5 ( before BVG came on the scene...). It was probably graded just towards the advent of when some of the OPC sheets were being sliced up. I'm not convinced it is cut from a sheet -- and I think I will see if I can cross it over to PSA. We will see what happens.

In my mind -- with BVG's that are graded 8.5 and below, you just need to be real careful on the grade breakdowns (if it is an authentic, not sheet-cut card). Because if BVG says the corners are an 8, remember that they basically use the "it's old -- so we have a sliding scale" rule -- so the corners may only be 7 by PSA's standards, making any potential for crossover dubious at best.

1420sports · April 17, 2003 10:54PM

Marc and others, thanks for the info. I do appreciate it.

aro13 · April 18, 2003 7:32AM

Randy - great points. Surface subgrade is crucial with BGS grading. If you find OPC hockey from the early 80's that grades out at 9.5 for everything but surface it is probably a sheet cut. AJ Cards also sells quite a bit of BGS graded cards from the 80's and 90's, of course, they also have been known to buy an uncut sheet or two.

goodriddance189 · April 18, 2003 8:07AM

i cannot stand the fact that BGS grades sheet cut cards......i see people getting burned buying gem mint bgs hockey cards all the time, and in my opinion they are essentially worthless

JeffVN · April 18, 2003 8:35AM

With the exception of the surface grade, is there any other way to discern if a card is sheet-cut? Granted, perfect edges are probably a give-away, but I know that most collectors don't seem to use a 10x loop much less a 20x loop on the edges of a card.

Any BGS crossover eyes out there?

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