Do Other Dealers Have the Same Policy as DLRC?
Typetone
Posts: 1,621 ✭✭
This post is not personal or a flame. I am just trying to understand industry conventions. Do not take it as a flame, and please do not use it to flame.
The situation is this. In another post a forum member related a situation with David Lawrence Rare Coins. Apparently a professional employee of DLRC quoted the member a price for a coin in a verbal phone conversation. He took a credit card number in payment and confirmed that the deal was done. The price matched the price listed in their email to customers. The price was in the $950 range. Later the member learned that DLRC felt their quote was in error and refused to sell at the agreed upon price. Instead they offered the coin at cost at about $1,650. John, the owner of DLRC, reiterated that their policy is that they can refuse to sell based on erroneous quotes, and that in those cases would try to work out a compromise, probably selling at cost.
My question is what is the normal coin dealer policy in these cases? But let's focus on the specific situation. First, this is not a simple clerical, typographical, error. I think all would agree that a mistaken price in an email or website will be corrected. Second we are not talking about an out of ballpark error (ie a $6,000 coin quoted at $600). This is a case where an owner or professional numismatist employee with coin in hand quotes a price say 50% below where it should be quoted. The deal is confirmed and payment is accepted.
I would have assumed that the deal is closed when the phones hang up. If there is an error at that level then there is an error. Yet, it seems that may not be the standard industry practice. Now again, I am not flaming, but am just trying to understand the commonly accepted terms of a coin transaction. So, if any dealers are on this board, what is your policy in the situation described. Also, would it matter if the coin had already been picked up. For example if a customer bought a coin at a show and paid too low a price (due to the erroneous quote of the professional salesperson) would you then seek to recover extra funds or return of the coin from the customer.
Thank you in advance for any clarifying comments.
Greg
The situation is this. In another post a forum member related a situation with David Lawrence Rare Coins. Apparently a professional employee of DLRC quoted the member a price for a coin in a verbal phone conversation. He took a credit card number in payment and confirmed that the deal was done. The price matched the price listed in their email to customers. The price was in the $950 range. Later the member learned that DLRC felt their quote was in error and refused to sell at the agreed upon price. Instead they offered the coin at cost at about $1,650. John, the owner of DLRC, reiterated that their policy is that they can refuse to sell based on erroneous quotes, and that in those cases would try to work out a compromise, probably selling at cost.
My question is what is the normal coin dealer policy in these cases? But let's focus on the specific situation. First, this is not a simple clerical, typographical, error. I think all would agree that a mistaken price in an email or website will be corrected. Second we are not talking about an out of ballpark error (ie a $6,000 coin quoted at $600). This is a case where an owner or professional numismatist employee with coin in hand quotes a price say 50% below where it should be quoted. The deal is confirmed and payment is accepted.
I would have assumed that the deal is closed when the phones hang up. If there is an error at that level then there is an error. Yet, it seems that may not be the standard industry practice. Now again, I am not flaming, but am just trying to understand the commonly accepted terms of a coin transaction. So, if any dealers are on this board, what is your policy in the situation described. Also, would it matter if the coin had already been picked up. For example if a customer bought a coin at a show and paid too low a price (due to the erroneous quote of the professional salesperson) would you then seek to recover extra funds or return of the coin from the customer.
Thank you in advance for any clarifying comments.
Greg
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Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Maybe I can shed some light for ya, say you have a really nice coin that you paid $1000 for. You are willing to sell it for 1500, so you put a sticker on it for 1500, but whoops, the 1 was omitted, and the coin sells for 500 by one of your employees. Would you allow the transaction to go through on an HONEST mistake? Or, would you try to explain the situation and save yourself the 500 dollar loss?
Russ, NCNE
I find nothing wrong with it, although it is nice to get in on a good deal every now and then.
Not quit the same situation. Let's say there was a clerical error. I put $500 on a tag instead of $1,500. Someone picks up the coin and hands me $500. I would not take it and tell him the correct price is $1,500.
Now however suppose he asks me or my Brother who works for me the price of the coin. I with coin in hand look at it and tell him $500. He pays me and walks away. Maybe he sells it at another table for $800. That night I realize my error. I see him tomorrow at the show. Do I go over to him and ask for another $500. Even if I have the courage to do so, should I.
Now suppose, that instead of walking away with it, he asks if he can leave it at my table and pick it up tomorrow. I say sure. Tomorrow when he comes to get it could I refuse to give it to him and instead hand back his $500?
Russ:
Please this is not a flame. The other thread sufficed for that. Just trying to understand. And, yes I have made even simpler errors, for more money, and had to accept it. I used to trade at the Chicago Board of Trade. Once I was asked for a quote on two note contracts. We usually only gave the numbers after the decimal. Example, if the price is 98.16, we just say 16. In this case, all day the price had been in the 98.16 range. This person asked me for the full quote. I mistaken said 99.16. Immediately the seller said sold. Each full point is worth $1,000, so I was out $2,000. I said I meant 98.16, but it didn't matter, my error my loss. Yes, the guy sharked me, but there it is. Similar situations have happened to me in coins.
Greg
Greg
Greg
Over the years, I have had dealers and collectors quote me AND invoice me for coins, where it turned out that their quoted prices were errors. In a few of these cases, a check had already been written. Sometimes they caught the mistakes and other times, I did.
In each case, I took their word for it and allowed them to void the transaction, without complaining about it. I would hope they would do the same, if the shoe were on the other foot.
With a law background, I think about contracts, "meeting of the mind" and things like that. If there is an error in price, I am of the opinion that there is no "meeting of the mind" and no contract.
But, I think about other, non-legal aspects, as well - things like good business, customer relations, our reputation. I realize I haven't answered your question yet, so I will try to do that now:
In answer to your question, and I am speaking just for myself here - if the pricing mistake were small (perhaps $100 or less) I probably would let it go. But, if hundreds or thousands of dollars were involved, I would contact the buyer as soon as I learned of the problem. I would nicely explain it to him, apologize for the error and offer to sell the coin for some type of discounted price, but not the "mistake" price. If no amicable agreement could be reached on that particular coin, I would try to make it up to him in the future and would make sure I followed through on that thought.
If the buyer were nice about it, I would remember it and try to reward him for it. Likewise, if the buyer were a jerk, I would make note of that, too.
I believe that each case is unique in its own way and should be handled accordingly. I would consider a number of factors, including the size of the error, how obvious it was or should have been, how soon it was discovered, the relationship with the client, how he handled it, etc.
I would hope that customers would keep an honest mistake (Especially "The #1 Mistake") private.
Veep
On March 7, 2003, at the Countryside show in Chicago, this very issue became a reality for us. A guy named Dan (last name withheld) stopped by our table. We only deal in raw coins, but we had about 10 slabs in the case that day. They were consignments and the client did not want us to remove them from the holders. Dan asked for a price on an 1870 1/2 dime in PCGS PF-62. I grabbed our inventory spreadsheet, found the coin, and then shot him a price of $180, which was the price on our spreadsheet.
James, a part owner of Jade Coin, had prepared the spreadsheet and had made a typographical error. About an hour or two later, Dan returned and said that he wanted to conclude the deal. I specialize in pre-1840 coinage, so the error was not apparent to me the first time around. When I started to write the receipt, however, something did not seem correct. That seemed like an awful good deal on a rainbow-toned proof coin from 1870. I reached for the Greysheet and then it was obvious that a mistake had been made.
I interrupted James, who was busy with another client. He looked at the inventory control sheet and said, "oh no, I made a mistake, that coin's price is switched with the one beneath it. The 1870 1/2 dime is $310". At this point you could cut the air with a knife. Dan looked at me with raised eyebrows, while James slapped himself in the forehead. All the while I am looking back and forth at Dan and James just waiting for somebody to do something. After about 10 seconds of silence I said, "our mistake, it's your coin for $180, but please note that you got a good deal". James backed me on the decision. Granted we are only talking about $130 difference, but the coin business is tough enough as it is. We had to pay our consignor based on a $310 reserve cost.
I will tell you another story in a separate post.
Dennis
jade Coin Co.
At the Michigan State Fall Show 2 years ago, we had a wealthy collector stop by our table at the very end of the last day. I had already packed 2 of our 3 cases and at least 90% of the dealers were already gone. This collector wanted early type coins, which are our specialty. I unpacked the first two cases and set-up the display for him. He started with early copper and bought several pieces. Each time he liked a coin and we settled on a price, he would reach into his leather brief case and pay me in cash. He said that he brought $20,000 cash with him. This is a true story.
I kept updating the invoice each time that he bought a coin and I had a pile of cash on my backup table. We were getting some pressure from the show officials, since they wanted everyone out of the room by 4:00 and it was now past 4:30. There was a big security concern and for good reason. He bought several more coins, from bust dimes through bust dollars............a dream customer.
When I got home that night, I proceeded to do our show results and balance the books (match receipts with cash/checks). I kept coming up exactly $1000 short. I went through the receipts and found the error: I had added 3 coins on 1 receipt incorrectly by $1000 less.
Fortunately, the customer gave me some information on his company and it had a phone number. A few days later I attempted to contact him, but he had at least 3 layers of staff to get through and they protected his privacy very well. I left messages, but to no avail. I finally got his home office number from a part time secretary and spoke with him that evening. I also got his fax number and had faxed him a letter explaining the error. He said that he did notice that he had $1000 more cash than he should have. I asked him to look at his copy of the receipt and he agreed that it was a simple adding error. When I wrote up the receipt, I said $2900, when it should have been $3900. I was very hectic and fast paced. You had to be there to believe it.
He told me that he would settle up with me at the next show, but he didn't make it. I called him again and he said that he was busy. I told him that I felt badly about the error and offered to split it at $500. By this time, many months had passed. Finally, we met again at the Michigan Fall show last year. He came in at the very last moment, just as usual. He's a very busy man. He stopped by and said "hi". He was not really there to buy, but more to look. I did not bring up the issue, but he did. He said, "hey, sorry about the $1000, I am not trying to ignore you, I am just swamped with business". Feeling a sense of uneasiness from him, I said, "ah, just forget about it, we made the mistake and I apologize". Of course I was hoping that he would plunk down $1000 on the table......let's just be honest. But he didn't. He did say, however, that he appreciated that and went on to say that we really liked the coins he bought from us and wanted to do a lot more business with us. He said he would compensate us with more business in the future.
I am supposed to contact him, which I will do now that this thread jogged my memory. We will see what happens. That's just a little story that relates to the topic of this thread. My business partner was not too happy with my performance, but I think he has forgotten about the incident. If you will excuse me, I am going to mix a drink now!
Dennis
jade Coin Co, LLC
EDITED TO SAY: I wrote-up several receipts during the transaction and only one was $2900 (should have been $3900). On a brighter note, he spent over $10,000 cash with us that day!!
Hmmm - did you fill out your IRS form?
If I was a dealer, any customer that did that to me, I wouldn't deal with again. As a customer, I would never do that to a dealer. If I did and the dealer still sold to me, I'd be veeeerrrrry wary about the pricing of what I bought!
If I were in that situation, I may or may not try to nullify the transaction. I have made mistakes in the past and they have gone both ways. Dealers have undone transactions that had been completed, the coin delivered, paid for, etc. I am certain that I will make mistakes in the future and will try not to leave any ill feelings.
As Andy said earlier, there really are no rules. It just has to be dealt with at that time.
I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
eBaystore
My group bid $300,000 to construct a structure, and won the competition. The land-clearing group quoted him $4000 to get the land ready.
A month later, with their equipment waiting on location, the land-guys informed the customer they actually needed $6000.
We then lost the $300,000 bid. But you can't expect those land guys to take a $2000 loss?
To make this coin-related - I like the AL quarter.
Tradedollarnut, the answer is "no" to you, and "yes" if you work for the IRS. Just kidding. Actually, we turn all of our financial work over to our accountants and they tell us if we need to file anything or take appropriate action.
BigE, you are correct in your analysis.
Btw, I am in sales (not coins) and ocassionally make mistakes at my own expense. My record is $2,300 (half of which came out of my pocket.) Can anyone top that?
EDITED TO SAY: "thank you", Dan, for the compliment
I bought a slabbed MS-63 Buffalo Nickel (don't remember the year or MM.) I think I paid about $85 for it in cash.
they summed it up very well and 100% correctly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i myself would live by the golden rule treat others as you would like to be treated
if accidents and mistakes are made then i would correct it
make it right between myself or the other party
as the coin is a secondary the person comes first above and beyond the coin
sincerely michael
Thanks, Dennis
I just checked. It was a 1929-S Buffalo NGC MS-63. I paid $60 in cash (which would explain why you don't have my name on your receipts.) I am very happy with it. As I recall, either you or James were helping another customer and another gentleman manning the booth helped me. I'll say "hi" at the next FUN show!
K S
Not making the phone call is the only wrong and everybody is certainly entitled to a mistake.
If people want to talk "BAD COIN DEALERS", email me and I will name some proven scum , that should be arrested, or placed in a slab machine at NFG.
David Lawrence Rare Coins remains on my, " must check web site list ", and I am sorry they had to endure any unnecessary flaming directed at them, because of an honest mistake. PAUL TAYLOR
Greg, I know you are trying to make a point with this thread, and I did not really address it, but I wanted to add my positive comments of DLRC to offsett some of the wanton flaming.
i just point out that every coin i've ever had interst in off their website, i have found elsewhere for less
K S
Jadecoin, your examples were helpful. In the second case, I would not expect you to accept that error. You both agreed on a price of $3,900. You made a typo writing up the receipt for $2,900. I believe you are owed the extra $1,000, and would not blame you for trying to collect. However, I can certainly understand why you might chose not to do so for a $20,000 customer. In the first example, I believe the customer was due the deal you gave him. You are a professional and came to an agreement verbally with a customer. Later you discovered your error but accepted it and did the deal without question. I would expect a dealer I deal with to do the same, always. If this is your normal business practice, I would pleased to add you to a list of dealers I would buy from and sell to. I am frankly surprised that Jadecoin's policy is not the norm for all dealers.
I have two of my own stories. I recently offered a piece on the Board at a certain price and sold it at that price. I learned later, that my price was probably way too low. I simple would not consider recontacting the buyer and asking for more. Nor, would I accept an unsolicited offer from the buyer to increase the price. As far as I know, maybe the buyer already resold the coin based on the fill. He is due his fill. In my business, investment management, this is the norm and perhaps the law. Once a fill is confirmed that is the price. If you make an error which ends in the customers favor he gets the benefit. If you make an error which ends in your favor, you reimburse.
A second example concerns a coin I bought from a dealer. He quoted me a price right before a major show. I agreed and he said he would send it out as soon as he got back. On Monday after the show I called him and asked if the coin was shipped. He says that he made an error and that the real price is double our agreed upon price, and will not ship at our level. After some "discussion" we split the difference. I later learned that he displayed the coin at the show and got a better offer. I have not purchased another piece from this dealer. Even if he hadn't shown the piece, I would hesitate to deal with him again as I felt the initial agreed upon price was fair.
After much thought, here is my policy. As a buyer I expect you as a dealer to honor your verbal or personally written price quote to me as long as the quote was made by a responsible professional employee. I will not hold you to typos on your website, impersonal emails to me, or other impersonal mailings. Nor will I hold you to a quote made by an unknowledgeable clerical employee, as long as you let me know of the error promptly. Nor will I hold you to an egregious error that should be clear to me (ie a $600 quote on a $6,000 coin) If you or your professional employee made a good faith error in a quote, and you contact me immediately I will consider a price adjustment. However, I do not promise to make one, and still expect you to honor the deal. If you do not subscribe to these standards, I will not do business directly with you or your firm. As a seller, I promise to honor all deals I make with you personally. I reserve the right however to correct errors in impersonal communications or posts. I also reserve the right to correct egregious errors that you should have been aware of (eg a $600 quote on a $6,000 coin). If I realize after the fact, that I made an erroneous quote which led to a deal, I will not contact you and ask you for an adjustment. Nor will I accept an unsolicited offer from you to pay more.
Greg
K S
- jade-coin
(James)
Jadecoin, I pulled this off your site on the Q&A page:
Q: What if I send one of your coins in and it gets body-bagged?
As long as you're within the twenty-five day window, you'll be just fine. We'll gladly refund the price of the coin. Unfortunately, we cannot possibly refund certification fees, but let's face it. Certification services make mistakes either way. We don't demand additional money in the case where one of our coins comes back to certified to a higher grade! In actuality, even if it falls some time after the twenty-five days, we would buy the coin back if it just obviously has a problem that we missed out on. We can honestly say that, to our knowledge, we have never "stuck" a collector with a coin he didn't want.
If you sold an altered, colored, or tooled coin that was not "obvious," would it be your mistake? If it was your mistake, would you only make good on it within 25 days? I seem to recall you were selling coins under bogus stories last August, and several members came forward and provided proof that the coins you were selling had been altered and the auctions made no mention of it. Do those people only have 25 days to uncover the truth about a coin you sell?
It really makes it hard for me to sit here and read your "high road" posts, and your self lauding posts by two people under the same username.
And, my comments have nothing to do with the DLRC issues where I do see some distinctions.
Wondercoin
What reputable coin dealer would be interested in posting a Q&A on the following questions?
Q: I only like certified coins, PCGS, NGC. All of your coins are raw. What about that?
Q: What if a coin I buy from you turns color, or has a problem that doesn't show up until months later? What then?
Q: I saw a coin on your sight where the grade is way off!
Q: What if I send one of your coins in and it gets body-bagged?
I don't know of another dealer who asks and answers themselves about these types of questions. I certainly didn't find this on the DLRC site.
of course you won't find those questions on dlrc's web-site - it's because they're perfect and can do no wrong!!! only criminals like jade would post stuff like that!
bwuahahahahahah!
you wanna get after it again?
K S
I set up with an individual at a few shows a year. He is a commem specialist and knows very little about pricing coins other than commems. He does know enough to recognize a nice coin when he sees it but just may not know what it is worth. Many would consider him to be a decent numismatist. I put stickers on the back of my coins with the cost and asking price. While I am walking the floor or looking at auction lots, he prices coins of mine by quoting directly from the asking price. On coins where he receives counter offers, he holds them until I return or pages me back to the table when coins of substantial value are concerned. On one particular coin at the FUN show, he read my code wrong. The coin was priced at over $30,000 and he mistook the character I had representing the three for the character I use as a one. The buyer was overjoyed and immediately wrote a check out for the coin thinking that he had just received the rip of the show. In fairness to the buyer, the coin was out of his usual scope of purchases and he did not fully realize the extent of how good a deal he actually received. This proud buyer then showed off his new trophy to a few very knowledgable individuals that knew what I had payed for the coin and was told that there had obviously been a mistake and that he may want to come back and speak with me about it. The buyer, being the fair and honorable man that he is, came back to the table and ended up purchasing the coin for something that was fair to both of us.
Now, he did not have to do this. He could have fled the show and later told me that a deal is a deal. According to your RULES OF ENGAGEMENT, this was a done deal, at least on how I interpreted what you wrote. If telling me a deal is a deal is how you would have handled this then please by all means PM me your name so I know to ask you to leave my table the next time you come by at a show. If I misinterpreted what you wrote, then accept my humble apology and I look forward to striking up a deal with you in the future.
Just like the ads in Coin World, where these "big" coin dealers use star or numeric rating systems for their coins and 95% of all coins are either a "10" or a "5 star" in terms of eye appeal. Hey Doug, check out MOST of the ads in Numis. News or Coin World: they are all either a 7 day or a 10 day return privilege, including David Hall RC and David Lawrence, since you used DLRC as an example. Jade gives a 25 day return policy (or more, according to their web site). So, why would you attack Jade's return policy when you are defending DLRC? Jade=25 days (at least) and DLRC is only 10 days. I am not attacking DLRC, I think that they are a very good coin company and I would buy from them in a minute. I just think it's funny how your logic is all twisted around. Oh, I also noticed that Jack Beymer has a 30 day "no questions asked" return policy. Jack rocks!!
Doug, you sound like a babbling fool. Jade seems like they have nothing to hide so they ask provocative questions and have provocative stuff on their home page. What do you collect? Looks like wheat cents to me, based on your icon.
babbling fool
NumisEd, are we resorting to namecalling right out of the box? I have read your other inane posts without commenting. Please use some self-control.
No, David, he specifically stated that gross errors are removed from the equation.
I for one am really tired of reading all the bashing of coin dealers over silly things. There still is in this society a presumption of fair play. In my world its not fair to expect anyone to eat a 100% pricing mistake. I will speak only for myself, but I wouldn't want to own anything that I obtained because of a major pricing mistake, regardless of how professional of person I dealt with. My personal integrity doesn't allow me to do that. The most difficult person in our society to deal with still deserves fundamental fairness or don't deal with them. Taking advantage of their error is still not ethical in my book. If you don't get that save your replies for PM's with the rest of the folks who care to take advantage of someone.
Finally the events of the past two days have made me more determined not less to purchase my next dealer coin from David Lawrence. Its the only way I can make a difference in regards to some of the negative comments made about them.
I don't care if you agree with this or not, my intent was not to post this to gain converts but to state how I feel about some of the behavior on this board. Why any coin dealer would be a member of this forum is beyond my comprehension.
My rules would not hold you to this deal. First, as you described it I would not consider the person a professional employee of yours. I would consider him a clerk, simply filling in while you are out. Of course, I would have held him to any commem deal on his coins. Second it was a clear typo error. The label says $30,000, and he sold for $10,000. He is not authorized to discount. Finally it could be considered egregious. I don't know the coin, but I suspect if I was putting $10,000 into a market, I would have a pretty good idea of fair value. While I would look for a good price, $10,000 would not be it. Do you have a legal case to get it back if he runs? Who knows? But, my policy would require me to let you break the deal.
I would have to say, that if I was going to buy a $10K coin from you, I would already know you and your professional employees, or have rock solid references. I would not buy the piece from a clerk or a fill in.
Now change the situation. Suppose you are manning the table and show me the coin. You discuss it with me, point out the strengths and weaknesses and after some negotiation agree on a price. I pay, you count it and agree that it is the correct amount. I take the coins and leave the show. Later that night you realize you made a mistake. I would expect you to honor the deal in those circumstances. I have in reverse situations. Now, if you called me and explained, I might be willing to negotiate, but would not promise to do so. For all we know, I might have already sold the piece to someone else.
Anyway that's what I would do.
Greg
In actuality, even if it falls some time after the twenty-five days, we would buy the coin back if it just obviously has a problem that we missed out on. We can honestly say that, to our knowledge, we have never "stuck" a collector with a coin he didn't want.
That's from your post, Doug. Irishmike is right. This dealer bashing thing needs to stop. I have been guilty of it in the past and I apologize. However, I will not stop flaming pin-heads who babble in a wanton manner.
<< <i>karl aren't you the same guy that states that no two coins are alike? How can you find the same coins cheaper on another website? >>
an absolutely excellent question, was wondering why it took so long for someone to ask - though it's not exactly right (i have never asserted that no 2 coins are alike).
note that dlrc sells SLABED coins, so to compare apples to apples, i am referencing strictly SLABED coins, which are generically described, ie "pcgs-35" or "anacs-8". so your right, the term "same coins" is really a misnomer. it should be "same slabs".
however, after getting the slab in-hand, you as a buyer have an opportunity to consummate the purchase sight-seen (assuming a reasonable return privlege)
glad you asked the question!
K S
Now some dealers have shared anecdotes about letting a coin go at an erroneous low price. How nice of them. But as a buyer I don't see how I would be offended if a deal that was too good to be true was busted up when the dealer realized his mistake. That is much different than say a situation where you negotiate a deal at market and then the dealer receives a higher offer and busts your deal to grab a bigger profit---which is not what happened in the fact situation described in the related thread.
To be blunt, anyone who would knowingly take advantage of dealer's error (the term knowingly includes conduct after the dealer has explained his mistake) and stick him with a financial loss has no integrity. The dealer is running a business and trying to make a living. You are just engaging in a hobby.
CG
I'm a bit baffled by your comments. We are incredibly committed to the quote you pulled off of our web-site. To my knowledge, we have never, ever sold an altered, colored, or tooled coin without informing the buyer of the problem. I don't remember that you've ever talked with us, so it might help to know what facts you've based your accusations on.
Here are four real live examples of how we stand behind our commitment:
Our Ebay sales
In the listing of the Fugio, we said this:
"We grade this coin as VG-8"
"There are some natural planchet flaws and the coin has, in our opinion been cleaned at one time"
For the 1806 half, certified by ANACS as F-12, we said this:
"ANACS, while usually accurate with their grading, will occasionally make a mistake."
"This coin should be removed from the holder and labeled ..........a VG coin that has been cleaned."
These comments are in reference to a coin certified by a top service!
For the 1823 half, we said:
"While the coin has EF details there are a couple of distractions that warrant a lower grade."
"The biggest flaw is the gouge in the field in front of Ms. Liberty"
And finally, for the 1825 half, we said this:
"we grade as F-12. It has strong VF details, but it has been polished and probably retoned to hide the cleaning"
"trust me, this is a damaged coin"
Regarding "Deb Greenman", we will not discuss our client relationships in public, other than to say that we did at one time purchase numerous coins from the "Greenman" estate, and the transaction involved trading several coins to her son. We learned of this estate through our yellow-pages ad, which is the largest numismatic ad in the West Michigan phone book. ("Deb's" son contacted us through that ad.)
We value our reputation jealously and strive for 100% customer satisfaction. It sounds like you don't trust our reputation. Please let us know what we can do to earn your trust. If you have some other problem that needs to be addressed, feel free to call one of us.
- jade
PS: Sorry to muddle up this thread. Doug if you want, you can start up a separate thread.