Does anybody believe a dealer when they tell you their cost?

agentjim007

I asked this question buried in the DLRC thread. When I'm told "my cost is..." My hearing goes out at that moment. Doctors have told me it's you know when your hearing crap deafness

Tonekiller

Yes,

I also believe a collector when they tell me how much they have in a coin.

TBT

LucyBop

I am a trusting and believeing person until I found out other wise about a person...

agentjim007

TBT... I figured you've been around longer than that.

RYK

Yes, I do believe my dealer. I get consistently good coins at reasonable prices, so why should I doubt it. Frankly, I rarely ask, but his stated policy is to sell coins about 15% mark-up from his purchase price. That seems very fair.

Robert

agentjim007

I know a dealer who marks up in his code...then he tells you his cost and his code to prove it, I've seen it all.

MrEureka

Unless the dealer bought the coin as your agent, why should you even CARE what the dealer's cost is?

baccaruda

whether i believe them or not is not really the point. their cost has everything to do with the cost of tea in china - it's meaningless. a $1,000 coin is worth $1,000 whether he paid $1,000,000 or 50¢.

marcalan84

I posted the other thread......and I have to say......I don't have any reason not to believe them. The price they quoted is higher than I thought they would ever pay for that particular coin......but again.......it isn't out of range for a top-end coin of that grade....and this particular series has been going up so fast......that prices vary quite a bit...and you sometimes have to pay strong prices to acquire tough coins. If the coin is nice.....it will sell......even at higher prices (in most cases). I would always tend to give the other person the benefit of the doubt.....and feel they don't really have anything to lose in being honest. As a businessman.....I can tell you.....that you have so much to lose if you are ever caught being dishonest or unfair.......that it wouldn't make sense to lie.....when you have absolutely nothing to gain......by doing so. Most people (coin dealers included) tend to be honest......the dishonest ones end up out of business sooner rather than later (or live a very meager existence...since he/she won't have many clients). It just sounds like there exists large numbers of less than honest people in the world because they are the ones we end up discussing and hearing about in the media..etc..

agentjim007

His cost has no point so why do they bring it up ? I have never asked their cost they volunteer the info. It's a red flag the guy is hosing you.

MrEureka

marcalan84, looks like ... you're ... running out of ... breath!

Veep

As most people are honest, I'd believe him. That said, it has no bearing on anything. I'll pay what I'm willing to pay.

Veep

MrEureka

It's a red flag the guy is hosing you.

Maybe. More likely he senses your lack of confidence and want to give it a boost. Sometimes, that's what it takes to make a sale. Doesn't mean he's lying.

agentjim007

Maybe. More likely he senses your lack of confidence and want to give it a boost. Sometimes, that's what it takes to make a sale. Doesn't mean he's lying.

Ha Ha Ha ha ha ha...thanks for the laugh, I've got milk comming out of my nose.

jbsteven

if I tell someone what my cost on a item is then it is the truth.

I had a guy sell me a proof half that he said he paid $1400 for but paid too high and I offered him 7.5% back of bid and he accepted. I was happy and he was just happy to sell the coin. It was obvious to me he KNEW he paid too much and was willing to take $925 in cash so he could buy other coins.

I was asked by another dealer what I paid for a coin I was selling to him and I told him the truth. He accepted my price and hopefully if I ask what he paid on a coin I buy from him then he will be honest and tell me.

BigE

Mr Eureka, marc's dog got off the leash and bit someone and won't come back home-------------BigE

Typetone

I don't ask a dealer their cost, I don't care about their cost, I would not believe what they told me, and would not expect them to care about my cost. I don't care about their overhead or anything else. I care about the market value of the coin. If I want the coin and it is being sold at fair value I buy it. If it is overpriced I do not buy it and look elsewhere. If it is nowhere else to be found perhaps I am wrong about fair value!

A local dealer here years ago bought a bunch of Brown box 73 proof IKEs for over $100. I guess there was a time when they cost that much. Now they are worth about $30 each. The dealer will not sell them there. He will not sell them at $50, or at $75. He will sell them at $100 and claims they are a bargain because that is 20% below his cost. He is probably telling the truth. Guess what, he hasn't sold any in years!

Greg

MacCoin

are you asking if all dealer are liers or if all liers are dealers. well it ain't true some dealer aren't liers, but you better watch you step with a few of the ebay guys. they will tell you anything to get a sale.


ps
I like your new Icon much better than the old one.

BigE

Say a dealer buys a coin from an old lady, does his cost include the bouquet of flowers it took to make her tip?-----------BigE

ksteelheader

Tonekiller

<< <i>TBT... I figured you've been around longer than that. >>





I have been around long enough to trust my fellow humans. Life is too short to become paranoid and second-guess everyone else’s statements. If a collector or dealer chooses to lie then most of the time you will not be the wiser…

TBT

MS68

Have you ever noticed that the kind of people that expect others to deceive them are very often indeed the kind of people that are themselves deceitful?

MrEureka

Have you ever noticed that the kind of people that expect others to deceive them are very often indeed the kind of people that are themselves deceitful?

Similarly, the people who are honest expect other people to be honest with them.

Of course, both groups have unrealistic expectations.

jadecoin

Hi agentjim007! I was good to see you at the Countryside coin show on Sunday. Sorry about your Randall coin, but maybe next time.

Regarding your topic about dealer costs, I would like to share a few thoughts. There's a phrase used amongst coin dealers and coin collectors. It is "coin lies". It means that sometimes the truth is exaggerated to boost the appeal of a coin that is trying to be sold.

In our early years of dealing, we bought many, many coins from other dealers who had told us their actual cost for a certain coin, and was willing to part with the coin for a $20 "flip". Eventually we caught on to this. One guy in particular used to forget what he told us and at each show he would quote different costs for the same coin. That still happens sometimes. You can only laugh at that kind of behavior.

The bottom line is that any information coming from a seller needs to be taken with a grain of salt. The underlying subject of importance is this: what is the coin worth? What does it really grade?

We often quote our cost to customers, but sometimes those figures can be skewed. In other words, if we buy 50 coins in a bulk lot, we have to breakdown the cost for each coin when adding it to our inventory. Sometimes we have to move money around to compensate for a coin that we paid too much for, etc., etc.

Then, of course, there's always the issue of the REAL cost of a coin. The table at a large show will cost us $900, plus the travel, hotel, etc. We don't add in these expenses, but we should. Perhaps other dealers do.

I usually carry about 2 or 3 months worth of receipts for coin purchases. Occasionally, if asked by the prospective customer, I will show the actual invoice for a coin purchase. This tactic must also be taken with a grain of salt. For example, sometimes a dealer will sell another dealer a coin for a lower or higher price, depending on other extraneous circumstances (i.e. owing money, returning a favor from another deal, etc.).

Moral of the story: Just focus on the coin and pay what you think it's worth.

jadecoin

PS - Jim, you looked intimidating with your badge. I think you scared all of the would-be thieves away last Sunday!!

agentjim007

I don't ask dealers cost.
reputable dealers don't even bring cost into the discussion, it doesn't matter.
Dealer to dealer, guys who have been doing business for years are most likely honest with each other.
If a dealer offers you his cost as part of the negotiation you should deduct atleast 10%

agentjim007

PS - Jim, you looked intimidating with your badge. I think you scared all of the would-be thieves away last Sunday!!

Hay that's nothing, I can make bad guys piss in a cup.

maddogale

From personal experience, anyone who offers what he "has" in a coin ( or gun at a gun show for that matter) doesn't get my business. They are usually full of bullsh!t. What they have to offer is overgraded and what they offer for yours is legal theft. I have one gun dealer I trust and one coin dealer. Neither try the "I've got XXX in this" BS routine!!

ElectricEye

If I tell someone my cost, I show them my purchase invoice. If someone tells me their cost, I ignore it as if nothing was ever said.

Legend

I don't buy coins based on what other dealers pay-I have enough faith in my ability to judge the market. Now, if I make an offer and they say no because they paid x, then depending on who it is, I will NOT deny them a fair profit if I believe I can make money on the coin.

I am more concerned with what a customer paid because if they are close I don't want to see them loose any $$.

In the end, it really doesn't matter what a dealer pays. YOU have to decide if the coin is worth it to YOU!

agentjim007

I am more concerned with what a customer paid because if they are close I don't want to see them loose any $$.

I guess when you say "any" you really mean you don't want to see them lose a whole lotta money. I ate a hundred bucks on the last coin I sold back to you.

JoyofCollecting

I would never ask a dealer how much he has in a coin. That's his business. However, there are a couple of trusted dealers that I do a lot of business with that occasionally volunteer how much they have in a particular coin. It doesn't tell he how much that coin is worth.....but it does give me an idea as to what a reputable dealer would pay for the coin if I were to sell it as a knowledgeable seller of the series I collect.

And yes...I have tested that bit of information with some duplicates.

Legend

Agent Jim,
If you recall (or you may not know), I only had FOUR of them in stock (remeber I had the little EVERGREEN deal of 1500 Halves). Plus, I believe its wasn't like you returned the coin in a week. I absolutely stand by all the coins I sell. You really shouldn't flame me about it, I DID buy it back without a quibble.

The topic here is does it matter what a dealer says they paid? I say NO!

agentjim007

You did buy it back but you squirmed a bit. I am not flamming just offering an opposing view to your self proclaimed collector advocate comment above.

agentjim007

And the topic here isn't does it matter what a dealer paid.. it is, do you believe what a dealer says he paid.

stman

I always tell them to save the stories, and just tell me how much they want for the coin.

coinguy1

It depends upon who the dealer is. For example, I believe Laura when she tells me her cost. Ditto for David Lawrence and some others. There are still others I can't say the same for.

ARCO

Yes for the most part. If the sellers cost is still too high then I just decide if the coin is worth it to me or not at the stated price. For me it is not some competition to pay X amount above what the seller paid for it and is selling it for, but merely to pay an amount less or at par with the current market prices for the coin. If I have to sell I would never be out the money I paid.

I tell other collectors what I paid for coins, whether I am planning on selling or not. If they praise me or ridicule me for the price I paid for a coin, I care not as I know what a coin is worth to me and that is enough

Tyler

Spooly

I sold a coin to a dealer at a coin show for $100 (cheap coin), then 2 hours later I walked by the dealer's table and noticed a collector holding the coin. I stop at the next table and heard the dealer tell the collector he had $125.00 "in" the coin and would sell him the coin for $135.00 "so I can make $10.00".

I thought it was funny!


35% return in 2 hours..... you have to love it!

fcloud

With Easter Sunday right around the corner. I will simply state that most dealers are honest and trustworthy.

Barry

No.

RYK

I would imagine that there are many instances that a dealer does not know exactly what he/she has paid for a coin. Often coins are purchased as a collection or in multiple coin lots. Splitting out a specific cost basis for an individual coin may be difficult. I would also imagine that there are other instances in which the dealer has no idea what he/she paid for a coin. Maybe it's been in the inventory a long time, the original sales documentation is missing or erroneous, etc.

Does it really matter? (perhaps the start of another thread)?

Lakesammman

It doesn't matter. What the coin is worth TO YOU is what's important.

BAJJERFAN

With a car dealer at least you can say "show me not the invoice you got but the check that you sent". With coin dealers you mostly have to take their word for it as I doubt that very many carry proof of purchase from show to show. Should it matter what the dealer paid? Probably not but apparently to some it does. Unless!! he is one of those "screwin the other guy and passin the savings on to you" kind of dealer.

Jupiter

*

Lakesammman

Consider these 2 scenarios.

A dealer buys a coin for 5K and offers it to you for 10k. It's worth 20k. Do you turn it down, thinking a 100% markup is crazy??

A dealer buys a coin for 10k, it's worth 5k, but he will sell it to you for no mark up - is he a great guy??

Both scenarios are crazy. The only thing that matters is what the coin is worth. Who cares what they paid? If reasonable, buy it. If not, pass. It's not something to agonize over - it's just a decision. Decide and move on.

dorkkarl

<< <i>I sold a coin to a dealer at a coin show for $100 ... 2 hours later ... noticed a collector holding the coin ... and heard the dealer tell the collector he had $125.00 "in" the coin and would sell him the coin for $135.00 "so I can make $10.00". >>

what a dealer paid you for the coin is NOT his cost. in addition to paying you for the coin, he presumably bought gas to drive the coin show, paid for a hotel room, ate some lunch, etc etc.



<< <i>the topic here isn't does it matter what a dealer paid.. it is, do you believe what a dealer says he paid. >>

hey agentjim007, sounds to me like your worried way too much about believing the dealer/not believing/what did it actually cost blah blah blah. that is all noise. the only thing you should worry about, as a collector, is: do you like the coin

now, as an aside, i have had dealers blatantly lie about what they paid for a coin, & i knew it because i was in the auction room when they bought it. it brings to mind a story of a coin i sold a dealer once, a beautifully toned seated dime, common date, but uncommon in looks. i sold it to him for $200 raw. saw the guy 2 months later with the same coin in a (overgraded) ngc holder priced at $500! he didn't remember that i was who sold it to him in the 1st place ..... & he told me he was making 50 bucks on it.

K S

UncleJoe

No. (except for myself)

Joe.

Edit: Come to think about it sometimes I don't even believe myself.

Joe.

MadMonk

It depends on the dealer, the situations, and many other factors. The good Lord also gave us intuition, perception. and discernment. All your faculties come into play on any given situation.

Trime

Trust is a matter of context.
The coin business is an area where truth is not a constant.
I believe a few persons all the time; some people some of the time and some never.
In any circumstance, what the dealer says he/she paid should be of interest only late in the process of selecting a coin for purchase. As a collector, deals often leave you with a coin that you didn't really want.

agentjim007

Learn to read folks. I don't care what a dealer paid. I am saying that information offered when not requested is a red flag.
I thinks Jupiter and I are going to have some fun here.