The 1979 Topps Baseball Set
Synthsense
Posts: 17
I been out of collecting baseball cards for the last six years due to college and other hobbies taking all my income, but last week I got the the urge to go through my baseball card collection in I am hooked again. The main set I was collecting before I got out was the 1979 Topps Baseball Set ungraded. This set has always grabbed my attention out of all of the baseball sets from the 70's due to the somewhat akward baseball design and the players in the set. I have decided to try to complete this set has a high graded set and have need some info:
1. Do all of you enjoy buying the actual product unopened and sending it in to get graded or just buying the cards off of Ebay when aviable.
2. Do all of you know of any trouble cards in the set that stand out more than the others. I got quite a few 7's and I was thinking of selling them when I upgrade, but if a 7 is a hard number to get I might just keep them.
3. Is unopened 1979 Topps baseball product easy to find nowadays?
Any info with help.
1. Do all of you enjoy buying the actual product unopened and sending it in to get graded or just buying the cards off of Ebay when aviable.
2. Do all of you know of any trouble cards in the set that stand out more than the others. I got quite a few 7's and I was thinking of selling them when I upgrade, but if a 7 is a hard number to get I might just keep them.
3. Is unopened 1979 Topps baseball product easy to find nowadays?
Any info with help.
Currently Building the 1979 Topps Baseball set in PSA 9
0
Comments
As for your questions, I am not a expert on 79, but I'm sure one of the 70s folks can help you out. I'll take a shot though:
1)Most people love to open wax and vending, but it seems as though it can be a frustrating thing to do when trying to find the gem mint cards. I think most would agree that some of the best cards come from rack packs.
2)I think you will be disapointed in the prices you get on 7s from 1979. Unless it is a 9 or 10 then it most likely will sell for less than the grading free.
3)As for 1979 check out ebay. There is plenty available at prices that are less then some modern packs.
Good luck. And what I always say is collect what you like. And do this for fun, not for investment.
Welcome, great info and fun here...
I am an avid collector of 1979 Topps BB , in my informal view, they are much tougher than other cadrs back to 1975, to get in nice shape. 8s are quite nice and somewhat tuff to get, let alone 9s or tens.
No big mass of sets on the registry for 79, much more before and after. Either folks think this is an ugly set , or it's too hard to get in nce shape.
For me, among a few others, the Jim Katt # 136 is almost impossibole to find in nice shape. ( 8 or better )
Re unopened packs... I've bought around 15 or so and have got only Tom Seaver , star, in rally nice shape, Perhaps just luck or ..???
I could go on and on about the 79s but would probably bore most members... let me know how it goes for yoiu.
Daulton
The commons from this set are worth very little, so when you spend like 100x the value of the card to get it graded, you are investing heavily in the whole idea of grading.
A PSA-7 on a common has to be regarded as a complete failure, and a probable total loss (the no bids at $0.50 kind of total loss). It looks like PSA-8's also sell for very little, with PSA-9's going for a bit above the cost of grading.
So your ability to pick 9's had better be pretty good, if you expect to create something that is worth more than you pay. Don't fall into the trap of thinking, "Well, even if the stuff is worth less than I pay, it may go up in value in the future." If you feel like the value of graded commons is going to go up, instead of grading the cards you have now, buy a whole bunch more raw ones, and send them in if/when it makes sense financially to send them in.
If you are *not* insane or you do *not* have money to burn, either collect the set raw or go back 20 or 30 years and pick a smaller set where more of the value of a graded card is present in the card, as opposed to the slab.
Another concern is that you are talking about buying unopened product and sending that in. Do not assume that unopened product will contain high-grade cards. Often when you open a pack of old cards, the centering on all them will be terrible, and/or they will have corner or edge problems that make them not worth sending in. Don't just send the stuff in blindly and expect to get high grades, "because it hasn't been touched by human hands". It's been touched by bored/tired print shop workers, and that's bad enough.
Sorry if any of this offends you guys who do '79 Topps. I would say this about any set from after about 1972, including the one that I collect graded ('86 Fleer Basketball).
bruce
Website: http://www.brucemo.com
Email: brucemo@seanet.com
<< <i>If you are talking about trying to put together a large modern set, you are totally playing with fire, and I wouldn't recommend this to anyone who wouldn't swear under oath that they were insane and had money to burn. >>
I think a lot of the people who are reading this fall into one or both of those categories.
JEB.
When I first read your post it angered me and I wanted to post something back to you right away. Since I collect the 74 set and the value of the cards is greater in 9's by a significant amount more than the grading fee I thought you were way off base. I don't consider myself insane (although others might) and I know I don't have money to burn. But then I re-read your message and in the second sentence you said that "you are investing heavily in the whole idea of grading." I think that statement has a lot of merrit and I've never looked at it that way before. At least with the vintage cards, each card has some kind of value outside of a holder. But with the newer cards, there really isn't any. The holder creates the value. I really appreciate your post and I think you made an excellent point. But most people actually have to meet me to consider me insane.
Wayne
Late-vintage or modern graded card sets are definitely "advanced collecting", and people who may not know what they are doing need to be warned pretty strongly that what they are doing may not make any sort of financial sense. PSA will gladly take your money to grade anything, which is what they should do. People shouldn't assume that because they'll grade anything, that everything is "worth" sending in to grade, if what you mean by "worth" is that the value of the card + holder is more than the cost of the card + grading. It is certainly very possible that you can create a PSA card that you can't sell for one dollar, delivered. Some people honestly do not know this. They think that the grading fee acts like some sort of "floor" on value. It does *not*.
If you know what you are doing, and you understand this, and you decide to do '79 Topps, I'm the last person that will be critical. I'll encourage you to be as insane as you like, and burn as much money as your spouse will allow you to burn. The same goes for '74 Topps, which I am accumulating raw, with some plans to send in myself. So there. I never said that *I* wasn't insane. Having money to burn, that is a big "no" these days, but hope springs eternal.
bruce
Website: http://www.brucemo.com
Email: brucemo@seanet.com
Wayne
While in college, my dad got interested in PSA due to the natural collector in him and sent alot of my ungraded cards to PSA has a birthday present. Now you have to understand that during the late 80's and early 90's a card being mint was a card that did not have any creases in it, four sharp corners, and had a glossy appearance. When we received my cards back during Christmas break, we were astounded to find out that 1989 Upper Deck Ken Griffey Jr PSA 8 was worth less according to the price guides then a ungraded copy, that my 1982 Topps Cal Ripken PSA 8 to the naked eye looked better then the 1987 Topps Barry Bonds PSA 9. All of a sudden print flaws and centering matter when determiing the condition of a card. It might have matter back then but I did not notice it has much when dealers where selling me a 1985 Topps Roger Clemens for $15. To them it was mint and thats what they wanted for it. I remember the day I go those cards looking on Ebay at the Ken Griffey Jr. Classic Orange prices for PSA 9's and 10's. When these were first released my dad ran a small comic book store and we ordered cases of the Classic sets. Before the PSA craze, we couldn't sell these sets for $5 brand new and now we were getting $40.00 a set on Ebay.
Where am I going with this? Basically, I am saying that with all the hobbies I been in whether it be comics, cards, action figures, or records, people will pay more then market value if they want it and helps them complete thier collection. 9 years ago, I left a hobby that grew to big and totally changed dramitically then what I was introduced too. It went from I will trade you a 1987 Donruss Barry Bonds for a 1987 Fleer Will Clark to my card is graded higher then yours, look at this neat little chase card I got, sorry, I don't have $6 dollars for a wax pack. I have now releaized PSA is needed for Ebay buyers because no longer is the condition of a card debatable. PSA establishes the condition while Ebay determines the value
Basically, I have talked to dealers through Ebay that have told me that now is a good time to get back into collecting due to it being a buyers market rather then a sellers market when I left. I choose the 1979 Topps basically just because I like the design , high grade cards are hard to come by it seems, and there is not to much product out there.
I do feel for those dealers with huge amount of 1986 Topps Baseball unopened product .
chris
<< <i>PSA establishes the condition while Ebay determines the value >>
That statement pretty much sums up what this hobby (from a buying and selling standpoint) has become. You can throw Beckett and SMR out the window. If you can consistently submit cards to PSA that will come back high grade and are in high demand according to ebay's selling history, you can make a fortune.
If you use any other method to evaluate the value of cards, you will either overpay for or never obtain the graded card you are looking for (as a buyer) or lose a lot of money (as a seller).
JEB.
<< <i>I remember 5 years ago asking an Authorized PSA Dealer if it was worth grading 1975 Topps commons. He said "absolutely not, that's crazy, no matter what the condition". Look at the market now. I think sets will over time become more and more desired in graded form. I believe 10 years or less from now, people will be seriously collecting 1988 Topps in PSA graded form. As long as people start attemping new sets after finishing another, the registry will flourish and even modern PSA cards will be sought after. >>
This absolutely does not mean that it is sensible to send in '88 Topps NOW.
bruce
Website: http://www.brucemo.com
Email: brucemo@seanet.com
First and foremost...Welcome to the Board!!
I'd like to address a "notion" here about "money to burn..."
Just for example...
30 years ago, you purchase a big box of old baseball cards from a garage sale, for $10.00. You all know that wasn't so strange 3 decades past. There was about 10,000 or so cards in the box. Your first thought is that...These are pretty cool...not too much money...Hmmmm, I'll get them.
Fast forward to 2003 and you pull 1 card out of the box (thats been sitting in the back of your sons closet) Send it in to PSA for grading, and then list the same 1/10 cent card on eBay. Total cost including eBay fees, grading, shipping and return...Say $12.00, give or take. The card sells for $100.00. Everybody still with me???
You now have $88.00 more than you started with , in cash, AND you still have 9999 cards left.
Now...A common PSA graded card becomes available (in a "more modern than not" year), and you purchased the simple worthless common (now housed in a PSA 8 holder) for $4.99 and $1.00 for shipping. Total cost of your new addition...$5.99.
I don't know anything about "new math" (might have to get one of my kids in here ) but I do know "old math"
Total expences...Purchase on 10,000 cards plus 1 card = $ 27.99
Total income.......Sale of 1 card.....................$100.00
By my calculations .... looks like I have 9999 "free" cards, 1 graded card for the collection that I like and chose myself, and $ 72.01 cash in my pocket!!!
My point is...
Sometimes "money to burn" could possibly mean extra disposable cash that was generated by luck...... Sure...you could spend the cash on a car payment, or invest it wisely in a mutual fund. But it's hard to drive a 1976 3-D card....
BTW...I have a basement full of "garage sale" boxes. Total investment...Maybe $300.00. Current value...Hmmmm...let's say much more than I paid for them.
Look back at my silly Kellogg's buys...Was it really "money to burn" ???
.02
Larry
email....emards4457@msn.com
CHEERS!!
bruce
Website: http://www.brucemo.com
Email: brucemo@seanet.com
Hello…my name is Frank Smith and I am insane since I’m trying to build a 100% graded 1979 set!
Rationale:
In all seriousness, with the possible exception 1977, the 1979 set is the toughest of all the post 1975 Topps issues. The set has absolutely horrible centering, is prone to print problems, and the stock seems to be somewhat “mushy” compared to other years. Most cards are fairly difficult, or at least inconsistent, to find with PSA 9 characteristics. Combine this with the fact that the set is, in my opinion, ugly and it’s no wonder that not that many people are collecting it. If you want challenge, however, you’ve come to the right year.
As for the cost standpoint, I have absolutely no intention on making money on my 1979 set. If I do great! However, I know I would have to get lucky or hold it for quite some time. I collect this set, and all of the other sets from 1975 to 1983, for one reason…emotional attachment. 1979 was the second year that I started really buying cards. My aunt, who recently passed away from cancer at age 57, would take me every weekend to the local market and buy me 10 packs. When I would get my paper route money, she would drive me over to Newberry’s and stand guard against the clerks while I went through each and every rack pack trying to find the ones with the best stars or cards I needed showing. It is memories like these that keep me collecting this set and all the sets I build. Some guys go to bars, some guys like to gamble; I collect graded cards from 1979. It’s a form of entertainment and, unlike the ones I mentioned earlier, I have something to show for it.
To answer your questions:
1. Do all of you enjoy buying the actual product unopened and sending it in to get graded or just buying the cards off of eBay when available?
Buying unopened product to break and send to PSA is nothing more than gambling. Since the cards in the entire box, case, or pack tend to have the same general characteristics (centering and print), if some of the cards good, the majority of the cards will be good. If some of the cards are bad, the majority of the cards will be bad. That is the first thing that you must realize. You are taking a chance. You tend to either stikeout or hit a home run! The second thing that you need to know is that RARELY do you break even or make money on breaking unopened product. Considering what PSA 9’s commons have been realizing on eBay ($9-$15) you need to get lucky and get some MAJOR stars in high grade to recover your costs. I can tell you that it is much more economical to buy graded cards off eBay at the prices they have been selling than to buy unopened. This is especially true if you take into consideration your time. However, there is some nostalgia breaking open a 24-year-old box. It is fun and brings back great memories. The question you must ask yourself is if the nostalgia is worth it?
2. Do all of you know of any trouble cards in the set that stand out more than the others? I got quite a few 7's and I was thinking of selling them when I upgrade, but if a 7 is a hard number to get I might just keep them.
The best way to identify tough cards is to use the PSA population report. Look through the report to see which cards either haven’t been submitted yet or which cards haven’t been graded an 8, 9, or 10. That’s a pretty good indicator that the card is somewhat tough. Also, serious collectors like Jack, are a great source of information. It is VERY IMPORTANT to note that there is a great deal of unopened product that will eventually be broken and submitted to PSA. In addition, there are a great many submittable cards that have not made it to PSA because their owners think it’s a waste of money or don’t see enough profit margin in doing so. These cards will eventually make it to PSA if either of these factors change. This will cut down the investment potential of the set. It wasn’t that long ago when some 1975 Topps PSA 8 commons that were 1/1’s or 1/2’s sold for over $300. Once people saw that, they went through there common boxes and the population jumped to over 10. Now they sell for $20-$40. Don’t think this won’t happen in the 1979’s.
PSA 7’s in this set are worthless. I don’t think you could sell a PSA 7 from 1979 for $1. When I miss something and get a grade below 8, I give mine to my nephews. They either keep them or use them for BB gun practice.
3. Is unopened 1979 Topps baseball product easy to find nowadays?
Depending upon what you are looking for, 1979 unopened product can be found. Just check out eBay or with the major unopened dealers.
In closing, I want to touch on something that Bruce said. He stated, “So your ability to pick 9's had better be pretty good, if you expect to create something that is worth more than you pay.” ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! Since you lose money on 8’s, you better be darn good at identifying high-grade raw cards. As it relates to 1979’s, the first step is to get a scale loupe or a detailed ruler to measure centering. If a card measures less that 60/40 centering at any point, be skeptical. Most of my 8’s come from submitting cards that look awesome, but are centered somewhere between 65/35 and 60/40 top to bottom. You will get KILLED on left to right centering. Don’t even try it. However, because the team banner at the bottom of the card, you can occasionally get away with top to bottom centering. I tend to get about three of four out of ten in 9 holders. The rest are 8’s.
You also need to get an idea of what “9 quality” corners and surfaces look like. I would recommend you buy at least a few already slabbed cards to get an idea of what you can and can’t get away with. Once you are armed with your loupe or ruler and know what to look for, you are ready. I would advise you to make a small submission at first. That way you can see how you have done without blowing a ton of dough. Once you get your results back, you can adjust your submission standards if you need to for next time. This technique does work. You can check out the following invoice numbers for my last few submissions containing 1979 cards: 4027612, 8023533, 8023594.
Chris (or anyone else), I’m currently setting on nearly 75 extra PSA 9 or 10 duplicates. These are all high-end cards that I took straight from rack packs. If anyone has an interest, please e-mail me at fesmith68@yahoo.com
Frank Smith
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The best presents in life are the ones you give yourself!
As far as buying unopened, I get a big kick opening late 70s baseball. The way I look at it, even if I do not break even, I will have a blast opening it and end up keeping a lot of the cards anyway. If I hit something, all the better. Additionally, and relatively speaking, open cards from a late 70s product will hold their value much better than the large majority of new product. As such, my opening habits focus on late 70s baseball (unless we are talking Topps Heritage which is an entirely different subject). Again, a very well thought out post, thank you!
Great post, good to know I am not the only nut who appreciates the 79 set. Only time will tell if the unopened material out there is going to have a significant impact/change on the population reports. Just as an example, I am lucky to have a nice access, in Chicago, to many shops, dealers and collectors. Through that, and mail orders, and ebay, etc.,....I have never personally seen a 79 Jim Kaat or Rick Reushel raw or graded, worthy of a strong 8 or better. It may just be possible, that the print set-ups left a few numbers quite extra difficult to obtain in high quality.??
Synthsense,
Card collecting, like most hobbies, is no real economic bounty, it's done mainly for enjoyment and personal accomplishment/pleasure. I casually collect 1952 Bowman BB ( which I like better than 52 Topps ) as well as 1999 Bowman Chrome Internationals, I have very little probability of any "profit" from these. I have two complete 1956 Topps BB sets which I fiddle with somewhat, to upgrade and improve. I will sell one in a few years and do expect a nice sum and a decent profit. I also buy mint sets from the US Treasury since 1999 to get a nice run of the 50 state quarters and the other coins of that particular year, there is almost no chance of any profit but it's fun to me.
My point is, if you like the 79 set, do start putting it together, raw, or PSA , or even "mixed", there are over 30 sets registered, perhaps a dozen have less than 1% of the set, but still, there are some other non-cost efficient collectors out there.