Return privilege on "layaway?"

topstuf

I was just asked a new question on a RAW coin. Whether I could take a "layaway" if they won the bid.
My answer was that I could take layaway but could not offer the return privilege that I offer for cash buyers. I don't mind working with someone but don't want to have to try to sell the coin again 3 months down the road.

Opinions?

goose3

I see that often. I guess If you are willing to let them tie up your coin for an extended period of time they you are kind of at their mercy. I've seen this often on Slabbed items but sometimes accompanied with quite a sizeable return charge.

kranky

I don't think that's an unreasonable position. If you allowed a return on a layaway, people could use layaway to speculate on coins. If the coin goes up, pay off the layaway and sell for a profit, and if it doesn't just cancel the layaway and get a refund.

An alternative could be to offer a 20% restocking fee on coins bought on layaway. That could be a way to cover your costs if you have to resell it later while offering some protection against prices dropping.

Russ

I agree with your approach. In a layaway situation with the price fluctuations inherent in collectibles, "approval" service could be very problematic. You'd already be going above and beyond by allowing layaway in an auction situation. I think it's unrealistic of the buyer to want it both ways.

Russ, NCNE

sinin1

what kind of value on this coin?

MrEureka

It depends on what you are able to negotiate and how much you are willing to risk to gain a new customer. I'd probably make the decision based mostly on how serious and reasonable I thought the buyer was.

geb209

<< <i>If you allowed a return on a layaway, people could use layaway to speculate on coins. If the coin goes up, pay off the layaway and sell for a profit, and if it doesn't just cancel the layaway and get a refund. >>



Huh? People can use layaway to speculate on coins whether or not there is a return allowance.

northcoin

It is unfair to a buyer to get stuck with a coin that turns out to be not as expected or represented simply because of layaway. The primary reason a seller offers lay away is to sell a coin that he may be stuck with for 3 months anyway or because he wants to build up a relationship to continue doing business with the buyer in the future. The seller always has the option of sending the coin out to the buyer "on approval" and then requesting the coin be returned until it is paid off. If a credit card authorization isn't sufficient for security, then the coin could even be sent to a trusted third-party in the buyer's locale.

The "other side of the coin" is that a seller might be tempted to promote layaway for a coin (i.e. a "dog") that he knows would otherwise get sent right back to him under his normal return priviledge - and thus deprive the buyer of a right of return. This is especially a problem with toned coins that can look great in the emailed scan but in person appear much different.

jbsteven

here is my layaway policy:

We offer a layaway plan for coin purchases of $300 or more:

50% down with two (2) payments made at 30, and 45 days with no interest charges. Item will be shipped when the balance is paid in full. Any monies paid into a layaway are refundable for product exchange or house credit only. Please e-mail us for more information.


I guess if someone really wanted to keep returning items they could be I believe most people would not do this.

SeattleSlammer

"The primary reason a seller offers lay away is to sell a coin that he may be stuck with for 3 months anyway"

I couldn't agree LESS with that. Many sellers have large inventories and will offer layway even on very fast-to-sell coins. Bottomline, it's up to the seller.

IT IS COMPLETELY FAIR TO NOT TAKE A RETURN ON A LAYAWAY ITEM....that's your right as a seller. If the buyer doesn't like that term, they can either find the money upfront or not buy the coin. Someone using layaway should thank you for even letting them buy it that way in the first place. Afterall, I don't think they sell coins at KMart.

wondercoin

It is unfair for the buyer to get stuck with a coin he does not like because he paid layaway and it is equally unfair for a seller to get stuck with a coin because the market has dropped 50% and the buyer "just doesn't like it". One simple solution I can agree to ...

Buyer has right to sell it back to seller at 80%, 85%, 90% or 95% of purchase price depending upon type of product involved. If it is a generic 1881(s) Morgan Dollar in MS65, perhaps 90% or 95% is fair. If it is a pop 1 early 20th century coin, perhaps 80% is fair because buyer gets to also enjoy the huge potential upside and is risking only 20% to do so. Whatever the % is deemed to be, you get the point Wondercoin

SeattleSlammer

Wondercoin,

How is it "unfair" for a buyer not to be able to return the coin because they don't like it? What kind of utopian shoppers' village do you live in, anyways? If the buyer uses layway and three months later gets the coin but doesn't like it, it's completely resonable for the seller to not allow a return.

Sheesh.

DCAMFranklin

I think your approach is perfectly reasonable. I've seen it used by a number of good sellers on Ebay.

As for Northcoin's post, I think it is important to remember that a potential buyer approached Topstuf about a layaway plan. This isn't something Topstuf promotes.

northcoin

Seattle Slammer. I agree with you that if the terms are understood at the inception and the seller makes it clear that there is no return on a layaway then the customer can take it or leave it. However, my experience is that in offering a layaway sometimes the issue of returnability is ignored with the buyer assuming that a sellers return priviledge applies. The above sellers position of accepting the layaway coin back for credit is fair to both buyer and seller, but again that policy should be explained to the buyer at the inception too.

wondercoin

Seattle Slammer: First, even though something is "unfair" doesn't mean it doesn't happen regularly. AND, I POINTED OUT IT WAS EQUALLY UNFAIR FOR THE SELLER TO TAKE BACK THE COIN - DIDN'T I?

So, if a buyer wanted to request a buy back at a certain % at the time of a layaway , I would entertain the discussion. That is not "utopian" - that is simply fair. And, if I propose the buy back price at 75% based upon a volatile item, the buyer can also simply decline the deal knowing full well the nature of the coin he is interested in. WIN-WIN the way I see it Wondercoin

EVillageProwler

What I've done is to offer a return priv on layaways, but the return period is available only for the 1st seven calendar days of receipt of the coin. Once the buyer sees the coin and decides to keep it, then he cannot expect the return policy still to be available beyond the initial 7-day period.

As for buybacks, I don't have a set policy. But, I think all sellers who stand behind their merchandise should consider buying back their coins at a price within a fair percentage of the original selling price. "Fair" is determined by prevailing market and personal conditions. For example, I have had a dealer buy back a coin at *more* than I paid for it initially. And, if the seller was just a collector looking to prune his inventory, then I would not expect any buy back policy at all. It depends...

EVP

SeattleSlammer

Sorry Wondercoin, I just don't agree with you. I don't think that it's even necessary for the seller to offer some prorated return option, period. And I still think that's a "fair" offer by the seller when considering a layaway sale.

We do, however, seem to agree that the buyer can take it or leave it.

northcoin

This should probably be a new thread, but if a purchase is made by credit card isn't there an guaranteed return privliedge anyway for up to 60 days regardless of whether the coin is purchased on layaway or not? Accordingly a seller could make himself look really good by telling the buyer, if you pay off your layaway within 60 days the return priviledge still applies.

wondercoin

SS: Yes, we do agree on that. Also, where I am selling a consigned coin (where I must pay the owner of the coin instantly), there can be no return privilege AND THIS IS SPELLED OUT CLEARLY AT THE TIME OF THE DEAL (unless I personally am comfortable with a % buy back on my own).

No question - lawaways are a difficult animal to deal with. I guess buyers should really also feel comfortable with who they are buying from, as the lawaway could easily become a disguised method of selling "dog" merchandise. And, sellers need to insure the layaway isn't simply a diguised method for a buyer to lock in a seller's cool inventory to then try to market during the time of the layaway Wondercoin

Tonekiller

<< <i>here is my layaway policy:

We offer a layaway plan for coin purchases of $300 or more:

50% down with two (2) payments made at 30, and 45 days with no interest charges. Item will be shipped when the balance is paid in full. Any monies paid into a layaway are refundable for product exchange or house credit only. Please e-mail us for more information. . >>





That looks real familiar Jason......almost word for word.

TBT

joejeweler

Geeze, SeatleSlammer........i must remember never to buy a coin from you! Pretty much ALL my purchases are layaways.....some very extented due to the dollars involved! (my profile Eliasberg PF68 1915 half took a whole year to pay off!). It was nice to know that even after that long, Adrian still offered his no-question 7 day return!

Fact is, i've built the majority of my collection from him, and have NEVER exercised this option once in 20 purchases or so! If a seller has confidence in what he has to sell....a "possibility" of a return shouldn't kill a deal from the start. And a buyer shouldn't be stuck with a coin JUST because it took awhile to pay it off, when a return is offered otherwise! If it happened alot, i suspect that dealer may choose to not deal with a particular buyer again.

A dealer with tight finances might not have the funds to pay back, perhaps. (we've all been there!). In that case, a returned coin could be resold and funds sent to the first buyer (who returned it initially), or a credit for other stock, perhaps.

One of my other regular dealers (i've spent about 12K with him for 4 coins, ....and still owe 4k to him) has a normal 7 day return policy for purchase paid up front....but an 18% "restocking" fee if returned after a 60 or 90 day layaway! Not my preference, but if he has a coin i want i'll take a chance with the policy. My latest purchase, if returned when i recieve it, could cost me $900 if it go's back! Ouch!

In any case......repeat business is never won when the buyer feels he's been taken advantage of! Isn't that what every good dealer wants........REPEAT CUSTOMERS! Then offer the same return policy whether the coin is paid up front OR on a layaway! About the ONLY "adjustment" that might be taken into account is a market adjustment based on either the greysheet or bluesheet. If after 3 months(or whatever the layaway was for.....the coin went down on the wholesale level 6% or 10%, or whatever percentage, then that amount could reasonably be deducted from a refund. Fair to both sides, it seems to me. Sort of like a variable interest rate banks use to cover them for market fluctuations over an extended time period.

I doubt if the sheet prices went UP.......the dealer would complain!
Joe T

BTW....topstuf......raw coins do not have the premise of a third party grading opinion on them or backing them to a degree, .....and in my mind should be even MORE liberal in any return policy! JMHO






<< <i>Sorry Wondercoin, I just don't agree with you. I don't think that it's even necessary for the seller to offer some prorated return option, period. And I still think that's a "fair" offer by the seller when considering a layaway sale.

We do, however, seem to agree that the buyer can take it or leave it.

>>

topstuf

Okay, here's the story. I offer returns on ALL purchases but do not offer layaway. It's not because of crap coins or I wouldn't offer ANY return.
I no longer accept PayPal because they hung me out on a $2000 coin and I went through HELL getting my account restored to me. And this was AFTER being a VERIFIED seller. I had to have copies made of my drivers license, most recent bank statement, utility bill and full ss number. And then had to agree to let them charge me a whole DOLLAR NINETY FIVE to let me have more than $500 a month.

When I had the shop open, I sold lots of stuff with paypal and as long as it was a business account, they gladly accepted my business. But when I converted to a personal (free) account after I retired, all the mess happened.

But I digress. I offer check, MO, or Bidpay where the buyer can charge and I get a money order.

With the whole world one anthrax spore from disintegration, I....CHOOSE....to sell stuff asap.

Returns gladly accepted as coins are a personal appeal item.

The potential buyer sent me a courteous email asking if I would take layaway as the coin fit his budget and he wanted time. So this layaway is a pre-arranged.....unusual.....not normal practice....one time/one buyer sort of thing.

I would far rather sell the coin clean and either re-offer it or have it be satisfactory.

Layaway is not my usual policy.

I appreciate the feedback as it gives me a lot of things to think about. I may in the future just say no to layaways and keep the auction to the terms I start it with.

Thanks to all who replied.

DCAMFranklin

Topstuf- The situation you just described is exactly the situation I envisioned whey you posted this thread. I'm glad you were willing to work with the buyer and accomodate his interest in the coin. I, too, do not offer layaway as a normal business practice. However, I had one buyer approach me about the idea, just as your buyer. I liked his Feedback record, he seemed very nice and forthright and I was willing to work with him. He sent his payments just exactly as he described. Every payment was right on time! He came back and bought another two, maybe three, coins from me. He has been a bidder on a number of other coins. He appreciated my willingness to work with him and rewarded me with future business. I appreciated his forthright handling of the transaction and ALL of his business.

AbesNeighbor

I believe a restocking or "Opportunity " fee is fair.

I also think that from what I have seen ......No one would ever want to return an Anaconda Coin!

Does he own any dogs?

DonTaxay

When it comes to buying and selling coins, I have no "policies". All things considered, if a deal makes sense, I do it. Otherwise, I find another way or pass. Why complicate things?