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How do you grade proof coins?
sinin1
Posts: 7,500 ✭
This is a newbie type question, but have not found any good reference sources yet - any suggestions?
I have some coins in 50-60's proof sets and trying to estimate what they would grade to decide if worth submitting.
Depth of field, strike, clarity, color - lack of hairlines/hazing ??
What is the importance of each and can you predict within 1 grade what your proof submissions come back as?
I have some coins in 50-60's proof sets and trying to estimate what they would grade to decide if worth submitting.
Depth of field, strike, clarity, color - lack of hairlines/hazing ??
What is the importance of each and can you predict within 1 grade what your proof submissions come back as?
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The single most important thing, numero uno with them, is hairlines. They are much more forgiving of a spot or two, a nick or ding or a touch of haze, than they are of hairlining. One hairline visible at a glance, and you're in a 67 holder. Two, 66, three, 65, more no better than 64 - UNLESS the coin is so stunning that it gets a point bump.
For cameo, deep cameo designation, field depth is very, very important on modern proofs. I know some people argue that it's frost that makes the designation and, while that's certainly important, my experience tells me that the mirrors play a greater role when it comes to deep cameo.
Also, it is frequently said that a DCAM cannot have any frost breaks or fades. That is simply not true. If a coin has extraordinary mirror depth for it's particular year - I mean the kind that looks like a black hole - a small frost break or fade will be forgiven. In other words, it's the overall impression the coin makes, not any single factor.
If the coin has a spot or two, say glue for example, and it's tucked away near the rim, or hidden in the lettering, this will usually only mean a one point drop in the grade. In a more visible location, a two point drop.
Very light outer peripheral haze will only drop it a point. As the amount of haze increases and moves toward the centers, the grade drop increases. Too much haze will keep the coin out of a cameo or deep cameo holder.
Note that all of the above is subject, again, to the overall coin. One that knocks the grader's dick in the dirt with visual stunning appeal will frequently be given a little room and a one point bump.
Yes, I invariably come within a point on mine, and frequently PCGS grades them higher than I thought.
Russ, NCNE
Russ, NCNE
More deep Mirrors for me!
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<< <i>All this is based on the assumption that it's PCGS doing the grading, and that these are modern proofs.
The single most important thing, numero uno with them, is hairlines. They are much more forgiving of a spot or two, a nick or ding or a touch of haze, than they are of hairlining. One hairline visible at a glance, and you're in a 67 holder. Two, 66, three, 65, more no better than 64 - UNLESS the coin is so stunning that it gets a point bump.
For cameo, deep cameo designation, field depth is very, very important on modern proofs. I know some people argue that it's frost that makes the designation and, while that's certainly important, my experience tells me that the mirrors play a greater role when it comes to deep cameo.
Also, it is frequently said that a DCAM cannot have any frost breaks or fades. That is simply not true. If a coin has extraordinary mirror depth for it's particular year - I mean the kind that looks like a black hole - a small frost break or fade will be forgiven. In other words, it's the overall impression the coin makes, not any single factor.
If the coin has a spot or two, say glue for example, and it's tucked away near the rim, or hidden in the lettering, this will usually only mean a one point drop in the grade. In a more visible location, a two point drop.
Very light outer peripheral haze will only drop it a point. As the amount of haze increases and moves toward the centers, the grade drop increases. Too much haze will keep the coin out of a cameo or deep cameo holder.
Note that all of the above is subject, again, to the overall coin. One that knocks the grader's dick in the dirt with visual stunning appeal will frequently be given a little room and a one point bump.
Yes, I invariably come within a point on mine, and frequently PCGS grades them higher than I thought.
Russ, NCNE >>
Great info Russ!
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<< <i>So how come a 64 kennedy has never met the criteria?? hmmm?? >>
Met what criteria? There are many 1964 Kennedy halves graded in cameo and deep cameo.
Russ, NCNE
Does anyone have good images showing hairlines? Are they the tiny marks in the otherwise clean mirror?
Look at this Kennedy.
myurl
<< <i>Does anyone have good images showing hairlines? >>
Same coin, different lighting and angle:
It's a scary world out there.
Russ, NCNE
As to frost breaks there seem to be certain years where some coins just aren't frosty in certian spots. For example the wisps of hair on a 1956 Franklin in front of his ear are not usually frosted even on DCAM coins.
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I also use a halogen light to look for hairlines and an incandescent light for overall contrast and eye appeal.
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