Full set sales

Wayne8348

The 68 all psa 8 set just sold for a little above smr. Does this mean that the smr is that accurate when looking at it in the context of an entire set or are collectors using it as a solid guideline when bidding on a set? This is the 3rd or 4th complete set from the 60's to sell right at smr in the past year.

Wayne

mikeschmidt

Wayne:

In my opinion, complete sets will almost always sell at a discount. 90% of the collectors I know building graded sets do it card by card -- and have neither the time, inclination or money to invest in a lump-sum purchase such as an all PSA 8 set. Also -- there are a number of cards in the 1968 Topps set where SMR is very high: there are a number of commons where examples in PSA 8 or higher is over 100. There are definitely some low population commons. But at the end of the day -- I think there are but a handful of collectors who would purchase a set like this. Dealers who would break it up and sell individually need to make a margin. Thus, I think it is often difficult to view pricing of entire sets in the context of the SMR price. Few purchase sets in that fashion.

Marc

Wayne8348

Marc,

I understand what you are saying and it makes sense BUT when you look at the actual sales it suggests that compete sets are selling for smr or better. I work in real estate and when I try and determine a most likely selling price of a property I compare it to others that have sold. This 68 set is just another example of a complete set selling at or above smr. I just think that at some point in time this has to start meaning something. These few sales may just be flukes (is that spelled right?). Your reasoning makes perfect sense but I'm just looking at what's happening with the sales. I was really curious as to what this set would bring since the 68 set is probably the easiest of the 1960's sets to complete in psa 8 and it still brought the price.

I've starting rebuilding the 1965 set and this time around I'm paying close attention to smr. I'm going to take it slow and make sure I'm under smr when I'm finished. Hopefully this set will never be sold but you never know what can happen.

wayne

JeffVN

I agree with Marc. Few collectors will spend the $$4 to buy an entire set unless they can do so at a discount. Although this set may have sold for the equivelenet SMR, many complete sets listed on E-Bay before it did not sell at all because they were offered only 65-75% of SMR. I've always perceived that if a seller is trying to maximize cash flow for his set, he needs to break it up and sell it in smaller team sets, lots, or singles.

Basilone

<< <i>This 68 set is just another example of a complete set selling at or above smr >>



Wayne-

Im going to have to disagree with you on this one. The 68 set is in the minority....only a handful of sets have sold for above SMR (when being sold as a whole). I agree with MS that most likely the sets will be purchased by people looking to break it up...

John

dude

Beckett and the SMR have two different structures for set prices. If you use the Beckett guide for a raw set and add up the individual prices of the commons and stars, the set price will always be less (usually 60% to 90%). That's why many dealers buy raw sets -- simply to break them up. The SMR on the otherhand is the total sum of the individual SMR prices. If a set sells for over SMR, the person buying it and breaking it up will have to sell those individual cards for over SMR to break even. I doubt that a dealer bought this set.

gemint

I was a bit surprised this set went for over SMR. It's a great set but the centering on the key cards seemed to be marginal. If someone has the cash and they don't want to invest one or two years building it card by card, then I can't say they paid too much for it.

LuxuryWines

I think that most complete sets will sell for a discount to SMR (Provided SMR is acccutrate). Most people when they buy in bulk and quntity expect a discount for the large outlay of cash... Hence the discount for the complete set... However occasionally you will see individuals who really want a set and do not want to go through the trouble of putting one together and it becomes the " I gotta have it price be *!@$% syndrome"... Which we see so frequently on EBAy on many cards..... That is what could have happend with the 1968's ...The key in building a set and selling it for a profit or breaking even has been and always will be what you purchase the cards for not what you can sell them at...

mikeschmidt

I am sure cards like Byron Browne, Mike Ryan, Sammy Ellis, John Odom and others are probably the key low population commons.

Over the entire set, the "Average" card has a PSA 8 population of an astronomical 37 -- with an "Average" PSA 9 population of nearly 17. So when you find a common with a population in the single digits, I imagine it is definitely one of the all-time toughies of the set.


This is probably one of the few post-1960s sets out there that has a critical mass having been graded to truly determine which cards are the toughest, for whatever reason.

Wayne8348

I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here but it does make perfect sense that sets should bring under smr when sold as a whole. But the last 4 sets that sold in their entireity from the 1960's all sold at or above smr. What does that mean?

1 1962 psa 8 set
2 1965 psa 8 and psa 9 sets
1 1968 psa 8 set

I don't think any of the 1960's sets have sold under smr. I also don't believe that this would hold true typically for 1950's sets because of the cost and 1970's sets because of the supply. I think everyone has made very valid points. It just isn't happening that way with the sales.

Wayne

Buckwheat

I believe taht any completed set in all PSA 8 or better in the 60's will sell for SMR or better. The reason is that the low pop cards are so hard to get that they sell for a huge premium (5X to 10X or more) over SMR. This makes up for the larger number of cards that go for 70-80% of SMR. When you have a less tahn complete set, even like 95%, it will usually be misssing the very expensive low pop crds, and often goes for significantly less than SMR.

jaxxr

What about partial sets ?? if one has a set with about 40 - 50 % complete with an average of PSA 8 does the bidder assume the raw cars are similar ?? Should bids be done with SMR the main factor ??

How much is the " effort" needed to complete a set worth, buying a complete set , fully graded or partially graded??

Is not the real key, the reason one bids ? Do yu want the set for keeping, collecting, or personal reasons, or are you getting the set to re-sell, probably break down, to sell for a profit ??

Basilone

Wayne-

I would not include the set that you sold to Mastro. That was a once in a lifetime sale. You had a buyer who could up-grade his set (the only one he collects) AND have a world renowned auction house to sell off the remainder (no commission to worry about...and he gets the 15% juice to boot)

John

Wayne8348

John,

It must have been a twice in a lifetime sale then because Mastronet pulled out $4,000 worth of cards and then sold it again for full smr a few months later.

Wayne

Basilone

Wayne,

Do you know the exact SMR (total of the SMRs for each card offered in that particular set) of the set Mastro sold in his auction? I would be interested to know the dollar figure.

Let me know,

John

Wayne8348

John,

The Mastro auction made me feel as if I undersold my set. I sold for smr. He took out what I thought was $4000 worth of cards (ebay value not smr) and resold it for about $4000 less than he paid. Then when you consider that they were far and away the toughest cards to get I think he came out very well. I'm not sure I could figure it up exactly - I didn't write down which cards he upgraded his set with but I could come very close. Like I said before, I'm not disappointed with the sales price but I wish I hadn't sold it.

Wayne

Basilone

Wayne-

The good news is with this hobby that you can always build it again! As you know..the fun is the thrill of the chase!!

John

Buckwheat

jaxxr wrote

<< <i>What about partial sets ?? if one has a set with about 40 - 50 % complete with an average of PSA 8 does the bidder assume the raw cars are similar ?? Should bids be done with SMR the main factor ??

How much is the " effort" needed to complete a set worth, buying a complete set , fully graded or partially graded??

Is not the real key, the reason one bids ? Do yu want the set for keeping, collecting, or personal reasons, or are you getting the set to re-sell, probably break down, to sell for a profit ?? >>



Jaxxr:
I never assume that the raw cards are the same grade as the graded ones. When i figure out a combo graded and raw set, I add up the what I would pay individually for the graded cards, and then do the same for the Raw cards. I like to see scans of the raw cards, as well as the grade the seller feels they are. The better I know the seller, the more credence I give to their grading. I recently bought a combo set from another set registry member, and his grading of his raw cards was very accurate, and maybe even harsh. He said NM for the cards, with good centering. My guess is that the majority of the cards would grade PSA 7, with probably an equal number of PSA 8's and less than 7's.

I agree you need to know the reason you are buying. With graded sets, it is very tough to buy and make a profit reselling, because there are usually people who want to upgrade their sets, and will bid "retail" value in order to pull out the ones they need. That is what I am doing with the set I bought.

Stump

Dont forget about the Tigers in the 68 set. These are highly collectable and are bought by people not interested in the complete set. The Brown,Wert, Lolich,Mcauliffe continue to bring multiples of SMR. If you look on ebay now three of these cards are over 100 now.
Team cards are also tough in this year with centering problems. Also there is still a handful of cards that have no nines including some very low pop nines. ( 1,2and 3's)

Dave