1986 Topps Rose PSA 10 GEM MINT on eBay!

sellerman23

The last time that I checked, there had not been a psa 10 graded for ANY 1986 Topps regular issue card. With the black top borders and the low quality paper stock, it just seemed impossible. I guess someone finally got an elusive 10. I have not checked the pop reports in a while. Have there been many/any other 10 grades for this issue? I bought a rack case of these cards a while back and I do not think any of the stars were even worthy enough to grade a 9.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2719680119&category=16277

The corners look great, but the centering is not worthy of a PSA 10, as far as I'm concerned.

Dave
sellerman23

downgoesfrazier

The card is gorgeous. What's your issue with the centering???

BigKidAtHeart

Looks good to me.


As to the POP - there are only 8 PSA10's
of all 1986 Topps. and this one is 1 of 1.

There are One PSA10 of each of these:
#5 PETE ROSE (SPECIAL 1975-78)
#8 DWAYNE MURPHY
#133 ANDY MCGAFFIGAN
And there are FOUR of #340 CAL RIPKEN JR.

BigKidAtHeart

there are however over 1500
of this Bonds rookie in PSA10
from the 86 topps Traded set.

Basilone

Looks like to have a small mark in the "R" in Reds. Also, the centering is not exactly 50/50. Both the mark and the centering would still fall within the guidelines for a 10. I

I personally like PSA 10's where the centering "appears" 50/50 when I look at the card.

John

dbj77

I think that the reason for few 10's besides the black border and horrid paper stock is that most people don't grade modern cards that much, especially 80's topps issues. There are only 743 cards submitted in all grades for 1986 topps, doesn't seem like a lot to me considering how many of these cards are out there. (on a side note, why were 250 Bret Saberhagen rookies graded? lol) I have tons of these stupid boxes sitting in my closet, I haven't been bored enough to go through them yet. That Rose would be nice enough for me, since I'm not a perfectionist, but I can see why some people wouldn't want it. seems a weak 10 to me based on L/R centering and possible fish eye on the R in REDS. But a beautiful card in my eyes!

1420sports

Basilone said it. At first glance the card does not jump out. I like 10's you don't have to think about ...

I think that Rose will go for 200 plus. His cards are red hot right now.

Wayne8348

I would be scared to put very much money into a 1986 topps psa 10. If the Bonds card has 1500 psa 10's, then I can't imagine these being very tough to get in psa 10 once folks start grading them. A "tough" psa 10 would be a 65 topps where only .06% of the cards graded by psa have been given a psa 10. To me, that is a tough psa 10. If a single card can have 1500 copies in psa 10 - that doesn't make for a tough psa 10. The only thing keeping the 86 topps pop reports down in psa 10 is that nobody has perceived them to have any value in the past. Now we will see a little run on them based on a couple of ripken psa 10 sales and a year from now they will be worth very little. Just my thoughts.

Wayne

LuxuryWines

Wayne,

I agree I would not spring for a PSA 10 86 Topps especially when you look at how many Bonds traded there are and the mountain of vending rack etc... out there.... However if you have 1986 Topps cards this may be a short term opportunity to get some $'s out of these cards.....Provided you have some PSA 9's and 10's.

mikeschmidt

I know that we have discussed the 1986 Topps issue a lot on these boards over the past few months -- let me address a few thoughts, though.


dbj77 said:

<<I think that the reason for few 10's besides the black border and horrid paper stock is that most people don't grade modern cards that much, especially 80's topps issues. >>

This is partially true -- but I guarantee not the full story. I own 1,600 factory-fresh Mike Schmidt cards from the 1986 Topps issue. Though I need to review them again, I would say that of that amount, less than 5% appear "worthy" of a grade of 8 or higher. For an issue so recent, those odds are truly bad. This is a very condition-sensitive issue; in fact, you may see that there are less 1986 Topps cards graded than nearly every other 1980s Topps issue. It is not because people don't grade them, it is because you can't find high quality raw on a consistent basis. I always use Mike Schmidt as my example -- but almost every Mike Schmidt Topps issue from the 1980s has more PSA 9's and 10's graded than all the Mike Schmidt's graded from the 1986 Topps issue, independent of grade. It's a tough issue.


Wane said:

<<I would be scared to put very much money into a 1986 topps psa 10. If the Bonds card has 1500 psa 10's, then I can't imagine these being very tough to get in psa 10 once folks start grading them. A "tough" psa 10 would be a 65 topps where only .06% of the cards graded by psa have been given a psa 10. To me, that is a tough psa 10. If a single card can have 1500 copies in psa 10 - that doesn't make for a tough psa 10. The only thing keeping the 86 topps pop reports down in psa 10 is that nobody has perceived them to have any value in the past.>>

Wayne -- just remember that the 1986 Topps and 1986 Topps Traded sets were produced at different times. I think nearly anyone who has gone through cases of these cards will suggest that, ceteris paribus, the Topps Traded cards are cut nicer, with less chips from the factory container. It is definitely true that there is an over-abundance of the 1986 Topps Traded sets out there, with a seemingly infinite supply of Bonds rookie cards. Nonetheless -- I think that there was at least some small change in the production process that lent the 1986 Topps Traded to have a much higher production quality than regular Topps. It almost makes sense, too, since 1987 Topps is not a tough issue, either. Perhaps after the regular issue was produced in 1986, they changed the blades, improved the cardboard, or whatever. But I think you are comparing apples to oranges with the Topps and Topps Traded from 1986.


At the end of the day -- I can certainly suggest that there are enough people out there watching the prices of some of these 1986 Topps cards in PSA 10 grade (I think a Cal Ripken sold recently, as well). Seeing that star cards are realizing over $100 in PSA 10 should lead to an increase in submissions -- if these cards are out there in high grade. Only time will tell, of course -- but I do think that this is one of the toughest Topps issues of the 1980s.

Perhaps 1981 is tougher -- but some astute folks who are on these boards (hi gator05!) have gone through enough cases of the product to find some of the best examples out there. 1986 Topps is either the toughest or second-toughest Topps set of the 1980s.

MS

Wayne8348

Dave and John,

I agree with both of you that this Rose is not a very strong 10 at all. You are basically buying the holder in this case - not the card.

MS,

I also agree with what you are saying. It does make sense that the 86 traded was printed differently and therefore easier to grade. But my point is that with the sheer abundance of 86 material out there (and very cheap) it isn't too difficult to find psa 10's. You just may have to go through more boxes to get there. The rest of the cards make for great giveaways to trick or treaters on Halloween. In comparison with the other 1980's sets it probably is tough but I don't think of any 1980's sets as being tough to grade. Ripken was a pop 1 just 2 months ago and is already a pop 4. To me, buying psa 10's from this set at the price level the ripken went for would be like buying enron a couple of year ago. (Maybe not that bad) The main thing driving prices of these cards is the player set registry. I see a large increase overall in star cards from this era. And that's not necessarily bad.

Wayne

RedHeart54

Topps Traded sets, from about 1983 and on, were usually a higher quality set. The pictures were brighter and as you know, the reverses had brighter ink as well. The fact that they were produced in box form probably helped them stay in better condition than the their pack- produced counterparts.

This Pete Rose, however, may be just as difficult as that 10. Even though OPCs are always less in favor, they are just as (if not more) difficult to find in 9s or 10s.

1986 OPC PSA 9 Rose

braves72078

I think the centering loks fine ????????????

Krems

Just a note on the Ripken in the 86 Topps set...I recently opened a vending case that I got very cheap and the Ripken seemed to be the easiest card in the set. About half of the Ripkens I pulled from the case were centered nicely and sharp with no print defects. I barely got any other star cards worth grading besides Ripken and I got 6 or 8 of those that are at least 9 quality...maybe a few white bordered all stars and those Rose special cards are worth grading as well. I did not end up submitting any cards though because there just wasn't enough quality cards to submit. I may send in a couple or three Ripkens for grading, but that is all I got out of 12,000 cards. It was fun to go through them though.

GATOR5

Wayne and Members

My last thread on the 86 topps set for sale will tell it all in my view. I would link
it but I'm not that advanced.

86 topps and traded are two totally different breeds. TT is a whole different stock
all together.

Wayne as for 10's being easy good luck on that it doesn't matter how much product
you break for you'll find a few but it's a very tuff issue. Let me give you some #'s
that I have found for 81's.

They are shocking...

Out of the 250 10's in 81 I've flipped somewhere in the range of 200+

Now out of the 250 75 or so of these are team cards now the story on
them is they are on their own sheet of 24 or 26 nothing else is on the
sheet exept for them. So when printed the operators can very easily
cut them nice. Hence thats why they are pretty much the easiest 10's
in the set.

Now this is what I've cracked off the top of my head and pretty darn close.

25 rack cases
2 wax
1 cello
2 vending

160,000 Cards

And have seen at least that many unopened cases that wont yield nothing
worth opening...

So I would say the 5 of the rack cases yielded me 90% of the 10's and
the wax brought the rest. Leaving a handful out of wax and cellos and
vending a whole whopping nothing.

Not put into the mix how many of the 10's are really legit minus the slant
cuts ones with stains and reverse centering not meeting 75-25 and so on
you can ax 75 of them trust me I know. Then take away all the multiple
10's and get your originals and thats pretty shocking.

Most of your tens come in the same cases and usually they will have twins
that will give you another example. For instance rose rb pop was one then
opened a rack case and bow they pop became 4. Same thing with my Brett
1 case 2 tens. So out of 200 examples of each card case fresh nothing even
close to a 10 then all of a sudden you have multiples.

Just some ramble to the discussion!!!!!!!!!!!

As for 81's or 86's I'm sure they run hand in hand with probably the 86s
get the nod!!!!!!!!!!S

Matt

purelyPSA

The Traded cards from 1986 are made from the white paper stock, whereas the regular issue uses that crappy pulp colored stuff. Plus there's an extra layer of gloss on the Traded cards which, in my opinion, keeps the card from chipping as easily. '86 topps is the worst I've found qualitywise of any year I've seen. Another thing you have to be aware of is that the red print on the back sometimes is ripped off on the corners; I've found cards that look like 9s on the front, but because the card stock is so bad and the cut isn't perfect, there's a tiny piece of the back print that gets ripped off of the corner. All in all the whole thing is atrocious. I agree that there'll never be a great number of 10s, even if this stuff gets opened en masse.

Wayne8348

Red Heart, Matt, and Purelypsa,

Thanks for all of the information. That really makes a lot of sense. Matt, I can't believe how many cards you went through. That is incredible! It really does put things in perspective.

Wayne

downgoesfrazier

I've had the pleasure of going through a fair amount of Gator's 81's. His "keepers" all have a tiffany-like finish and are not a fair representation of the typical product. I believe 86's can be done like this, but would require the same lack of compromise and commitment that his 81's have gotten. For cards that will sell below grading fees in MINT 9, that would take a special (crazy) collector.

GATOR5

Wayne-

No problem, it's not an easy task for I couldn't see anyone else doing
what I do. Totally a full time job almost then going head to head with
psa to get them in the correct holders is the challenge. For it's a very
tough set to grade and I know they don't have all the best examples
for referance.

As to any of you that I have chatted with or trust I will gladly ship you a
team of your choice out of my collection. They are really something to
be viewed. To only think that 81's can look like this you'd be amazed.

DGF-

You saw the earlier batch, wait till you see the new and improved
And thanks for all the kind words or better yet thanks for getting me
into this charade by making me the pickiest sob.

Lator, Gator

NHLfightguy

The centering looks fine to me. How many PSA 10's have 50-50 centering, not many. I don't see a huge increase ever in 10's in 86 topps. This issue is tough to get even a 9 from. I wouldn't be surprised to see this go for over 300.