A perfect example of why slimeball grading services and sellers will always flourish

Tonelover

Max stated in an earlier post:

I place the blame on the dealers who pedal the stuff and the collectors seeking a "deal". In my opinion they deserve each other.

Well I couldn't resist and wrote the current bidder on the 1877 Proof Indian Cent to try to give some helpful advice.

Here's the response I got from the current high bidder:

Thank you for your input but I personally think PCGS & NGC are grossly overrated and have seen many of their specimens that I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole. Granted, I may have far less experience than you but I have many NTC coins and I have not seen any of the characteristics
you describe and I have bought coins long enough to spot an "altered" coin.

I was surprised by his response, but by the same token I wasn't surprised. God bless him, the graders and the sleazeball sellers. May they be very happy together.

wingedliberty

Tonelover:
Since I know who you are, by him admitting that he has less experience than you is at least truthful.
I guess he could have said that he has about ten thousand times less experience than you and that still would be the truth. He may be related to the female HAGAR or living in a Matrix type parallel reality.
Either way, at least one sentence in his statement was true.


Brian.

Max

Tonelover,
That was probably BJ of "senseless"!

Tonelover

Due to the recent ANA situation I worded my message to him very carefully, from one concerned collector who has been burned to another who is about to be.

Also gave a link to the PNG webste and survey, not that it will help.

Merc

Hi Tonelover Good to see you are back. I have not seen any of your posts for awhile.

All I can say for this buyer is that a fool and his money are soon departed.

originalisbest

I've "helped out" in a similar way myself; sometimes it takes and sometimes not. But I was successful one time at least in keeping a fellow ebayer from buying a very badly whizzed Flying Eagle as a "gem unc."

DCAMFranklin

Why must you take offense to his response? Though he may not have as much experience as you, he clearly feels adequately informed to make his own bids. He was polite with his response. His confidence in his own decisions is good. Right or wrong, he is taking responsibility for his own actions. He puts up his money and he accepts his coins. Nothing wrong with that.

Tonelover

<< <i>I've "helped out" in a similar way myself; sometimes it takes and sometimes not. But I was successful one time at least in keeping a fellow ebayer from buying a very badly whizzed Flying Eagle as a "gem unc." >>



It is a good feeling when you help that one person see the light. I don't usually bother with the ebay crowd anymore, but through my work it happens frequently and it's awesome!

DCAMFranklin

Then again, for just another $500, you could get this coin

1877 Proof

I could put up with a little brown with my red and rest easy with the PCGS holder.

Didn't realize the high bidder might have bid this much money

RED

Anyway, he is a big boy and ready to put up his money for the coin.

joejeweler

I saw that Proof 1877 Indian.......nice except i didn't like what appears to be a pretty good sized "print" on the reverse! "Book 'um Dan-o"!

Joe T




<< <i>Then again, for just another $500, you could get this coin

1877 Proof

I could put up with a little brown with my red and rest easy with the PCGS holder.

Didn't realize the high bidder might have bid this much money

RED

Anyway, he is a big boy and ready to put up his money for the coin. >>

MadMonk

All Tonelover, and the rest of us can do is try to educate. Unfortunately, human nature is such that we don't like our belief system disturbed. Kudos to you for trying.

Cockney

Dont give up trying Tonelover. If it was for people like you I would have an awesome collection of ACG crap.

LincolnCentMan

Well,

Concerning the subject of off brand "certified" coins, I generally stay away from them. I bought a ACG 22-Pl "strong rev" in "XF45" about five years ago. It turned out to be a Shadow D that would grade no better than G. You can imagine how much $$$ I lost on that one. I will NEVER buy another coin in an ACG holder as a matter of principle. I dont care if the coin is an incredible find (not likely in a ACG holder). I'll never own another one. I cant tell you how many dealers have gotten hacked at me because I've declined to even look at coins they have in ACG holders. I'm not rude about it, I just tell them that I'm not interested in anything in an ACG holder. This is the most effective thing I can do as a single consumer to combate the situation.

I hadn't had any experience with NTC until reciently. I'm working on putting together a MS brown set of lincolns, a lot easier to say than do. The hardest part is finding them. There's probably one PCGS brown cent to hit e-bay for every 100 red ones. I found a NTC VDB in "67BN" a while back. Since I handnt had any experience with NTC, I thought it over pretty good, and decided to give them a try. Well, I just got the coin yesterday. I can assure you the coin would grade no better than MS64BN, and if sent to PCGS or NGC, it would probably get body bagged. Needless to day, they now rank just above ACG... and below PCI. At least with PCI, the old green lable holders are usually within a point. ...or at least that has been my experience.

David

wingedliberty

As far as I am concerned , NTC is on par with ACG now.

Brian.

Russ

LincolnCentMan,

I could have told you that about NTC. In the coins I buy, they are actually worse than ACG. The only real difference between the two companies is that the principals of NTC don't run around loudly making fools of themselves.

Russ, NCNE

NumisEd

Tonelover, the "current high bidder" who replied to your email was more than likely also the "seller" of the coin. Get it?

Pushkin

<< <i>I could have told you that about NTC. In the coins I buy, they are actually worse than ACG. >>



Russ is right on about NTC. They are worse than ACG, one reason being their "ruputation" has not quite reached big time like ACG. I have a counterfeit NTC Indian Head cent that I really enjoy showing off. I fear somebody is really going to get hurt on that 1877 Proof Indian, as a lot of people are getting hurt on NTC slabs and don't know it.

Kudos to Tonelover for trying to spread the word. NTC is, in my opinion, the biggest problem in the junk slabbing world right now. Their attractive slabs also appeal to and fool a lot a people. I know of several newbies who bought NTC thinking it was NGC.

wingedliberty

The peddlers of NTC that I now see at shows don't even get a nod from me, I just walk right by their table and ignore them.

Brian.