Example of "bargain" real monster toned Morgan find...yes, it can happen to you!
SeattleSlammer
Posts: 10,034 ✭✭✭✭✭
Of course, everything is relative. But I bought this one recently at a small local show. I paid $120, and consider it a great deal.
The killer, off-the-charts luster of this coin needs to be seen in person to be believed (and its intensity is only hinted at in the picture).
The colors are neon bright and smack you in the face when you hold it in your hand. Some would say that I'm nuts spending
3-4 times sheet on a coin....but I know I got a deal. It's getting harder and harder to find this type of color at "bargain"
prices, but when you do, it's a great feeling.
The killer, off-the-charts luster of this coin needs to be seen in person to be believed (and its intensity is only hinted at in the picture).
The colors are neon bright and smack you in the face when you hold it in your hand. Some would say that I'm nuts spending
3-4 times sheet on a coin....but I know I got a deal. It's getting harder and harder to find this type of color at "bargain"
prices, but when you do, it's a great feeling.
0
Comments
TBT
I like the way ANACS is now also offering Morgans with the Reverse rightside up.
peacockcoins
a lesser extent, PCGS, with reverses up that didn't deserve it. Just maybe a hint of color and they'd flip it....I really think it
needs to be a monster to get the flip.
Those are indeed the 'right' colors and the right 'look' for a toned coin. Not only are the colors bright and rich, but the luster looks outstanding. That combination gives such a coin that 'pop'.
Good work.....and purchased at a great price.
GSAGUY
I got this 87 PCI MS63 @ a 20 table show in Alabama for $50. Small local shows are a great place to shop.
I can't remember seeing one reverse up in a PCI holder....
Brian.
Nice score!
Cheers,
Bob
I've seen yours with a price tag of 500% over what you paid and still thought it was a deal.
peacockcoins
Not many collectors in South Alabama period.
I did get one recently from MBCoins that I paid like 10 x bid for though.
There's the ocassional Bid Board score, but overall, the pickings are slim unless I step up and pay the retail.
peacockcoins
Just gonna sit back and enjoy the fight.
<< <i>The coin is AT. Just because its slabbed does not mean its authentic. It shows at least 5 characteristics of AT . >>
And it's nothing short of amazing that you can detect that just from a photo through all that glare! We mortals would have to see the coin in person to absolutely determine what color is caused by the reflection off the plastic vs the surface of the coin.
Cheers,
Bob
Just in case you're serious and not just out to yank a chain, I'll respond.
lol
There's always a hater somewhere. I can assure you that this coin is not AT, and I can give you many reasons why it is original. Shades of color / order of color on the coin / placement and mixing of color / way the color is imbedded in the devices, just to name a few.
If you think that it is AT, I would love to take all of your AT coins off your hands for sheet prices. Just send me the scans.
But I resect your opinion even if it is wrong. I figure that when someone like you passes over a genuine toned coin because they think it's fake, it just leaves more gems for those of us that know what's what.
Cheers
Looking for Nationals, Large VF to AU type, 1928 Gold, and WWII Emergency notes. Also a few nice Buffalo Nickels and Morgan Dollars.
Monty...
roadrunner
I agree with your points 1) there does always seem to be some guy who pops off with a negative comment and 2) I too like it when people pass on coins because they think they are AT when they don't seem so to me. So I am in fundamental aggreeement with you on those points. And whoever said that how can I tell with all the glare is also right, I should not have been so positive in my answer. In fact I try very hard to keep my mouth shut so that I do not cause waves. And in response to someone elses comment about me not knowing anything about coins, I can only say that I know a great deal about coins and have expertise in areas that qualify me to make such a statement as I did, albeit I should not be so certain in my answer unless looking at the coin. What I saw in the image was problems in the colors, the order and areas that are caused by the chemicals collecting to form specific patterns . the imbedded criteria I cannot check obvoiusly. But the color , tell me how the order of color is correct. I am not looking for a fight, I am serious and just want to hear your reasoning. If I am mistaken then I will apologize accordingly.
The Doc
In my experience the Emerald/Magenta/Yellow/Blue/Organge-Tan order of color (with proper natural blending of those colors), is most commonly encountered on genuinely toned Morgan dollars. I've bought and sold many of these coins (espeically those in the more respected PCGS holders, and PCGS generally does the best job of detecting the AT stuff).
This theory plays out in the majority of multi-colored Morgans that you see when bands of color are present. In particular, look at the pictures posted in the recent Monster-Morgan thread posted by Newkid. All of those coins exhibit the Emerald/Magenta/Yellow/Blue/Orange-Tan configuration in one way or another. As does the ANACS coin that I posted in this thread.
Of course, if someone has the time and technology and wants to fake monster toning, my guess is that eventually they'll be able to come up with something that can pass even the most trained eye. But I feel really good writing that this ANACS coin is not that example.
Thank you for the respectful discourse. I appreciate your opinions.
pale gold, light blue, darker gold, magenta, cyan, indigo, steel blue, black, with subtle and smooth color changes in between.
I was told that emerald and bright purple are rare colors naturally but more common with chemical AT.
I think the subject coin is pretty but had some "help" in one form or another, just my opinion.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I am concerned about the strange angles and shapes that the toning has spread accross the coins surface. It is quite unusual. In fact so unusual that I can't even get a fix on where it starts. I t goes frrom yellow to green to blue then pink then orange then it stops and turns into gold at 90 degree angles on both the left and right with a section in between that is untoned. This untonned area seems to have no defined shape and has right angles starting and stopping sometimes on and others times off the devices. It then looks like it ends briefly with some toining to the left of the tailfeathers then starts again with the similar but smaller rainbow effect at 7:00. At 8:00 there is some highly suspicious toning which seems to have no explannation and the ornage color I see is also extremely rare. Other things that really bother me are the indiscrimnate stopping and starting of colors without slow separation and difused shades and colors blending ever so slowly. Another thing is that the colors are too bright for its age if it were natural. THere appears to be no marks on top of the toning which is another sign that the toning is on top. ANd of course there is the star at 4:00. It is the same color as its surrounding toning. That shows the color was laid down quick and would not stand off as it would over the slow multiple decade time frame that it would take to tone a coin so completely. I am about 98% sure this is AT. I also want to add that you cannot base your knowledge of toning on what others look like for those might be AT as well. What you have to understand is what toning is and how it works. THere is no exact color scheme for a coin could be stored somewhere where there are certain substances in the air that cause a certain color to be created when it react with the silver or copper in the coin. There are many things that go into the toning. Its rather like a big pot of stew. You store a coin in some sort of holder, then there is the air, particles in the air, what kind of particulate matter is around, are you near a farm, or the sea, or a city; then there are the polluntants, sulphur dioxide, hydrogen sulfide, nitrogen dioxide, methane, chlorine, carbon dioxide, etc, etc These come from cars, trucks, disel, factories. etc. Then toss in the natural gases such as hydrogen, bromine, carbon dioxide, etc. Then there are the local things like toxic fumes from checmical or paints stored in the house. Carpet padding, rubber, paper, wood, paint and allot more things will tone coins due to the chemical in them. People think that sulfur is the only thing, and it creates one set of colors. These are all simple models which do not take into the amazing complexity of the process. The fact of the matter is that most coins tone ugly, its only a very small percentage that tone with that rainbow band of evenly spread perfect colors. For even the slightest bit of grease, or a fingerprint, or some other sustance will block the toning and force it to go around it. That is why a fingerprint will show up on a toned coin. The finger print was there before it toned its just you could not see it. These are the truths and I have so many studies, books and articles on the subject that I consider myself perhaps a Doctor of Tone.
you probably would have lost your mind compleately.
Lovely coin.
Camelot
What does that mean?
As before, I totally repect your opinion, but I can still assure you that this is NOT an AT coin. I totally do not agree that the "colors are too bright for its age".....?????.....it's 124 years old! That's plenty time for all sorts of color to show up.
Anyways, what disturbs me most is that your handle is "Doctor Of Tone" and you're "98% sure that it's AT." You should give more weight to that 2% or change your handle.
I'm honeslty not trying to be rude, but you're really off base on this one. Yes, it is rare, but it is also real. Many educated, discriminating tone collectors and dealers I have shared it with agree.
Cheers
<< <i>I believe what bear is saying D.O.T. and correct me if I'm wrong bear but what he is saying is that some deck is missing a joker. >>
heh...hehheh......HAHHAHHAH......ROTFLMAO!
TBT
Well, all I can say is that 1) I hope that I am wrong 2)I am working of a photo which is not ideal. 3) I should not have said anything and sorry for my incorrectly passing judgement.
and lastly, hypothetcally speaking....... What if I said that every so often I see Morgans that are slabbed selling on Ebay or on sellers websites that I have pictures of that very same coin but raw and before and after the color and/or other enhancements were completed. What would the so-called experts say looking at a slabbed coin that was just proven to be AT? Now, mind you I am speaking hypothetically and don't expect anyone to jump to any conclusions or spout unproven theories.
Again, although I might be coming across as mad about your comments, I'm really not. I'm just sure about this one. And I don't mind taking and giving a few flames once in a while.
If you do have pictures as you describe, I'd love to see them! (coins before and after tone jobs, and then the picture of the coin in the slab) I'm certainly not stupid enough to think that grading companies don't miss faked coins every once in a while.
Cheers