Franklin question...NGC vs PCGS grading, Picture link added

ksteelheader

I need some input from people that have tried to cross NGC to PCGS. What do you think a NGC MS 65 Franklin would normally cross to at PCGS?.........Thanks, Ken Textlink

airplanenut

63-66? How nice is it... and how well graded? From here, it's just a guess with no picture...

LucyBop

I have found NGC Frankies to be looser then PCGs........ Thats not to say that it won't cross or even upgrade, but most that I have seen seem to have more hits then PCGs does for any given grade.....

ksteelheader

I just got it off e-bay. I'll try to link....KenTextlink

LucyBop

always hard to grade a pic or scan.... But, I think you have a winner there, that coin appears to have some very clean fields... I may be seeing a hit on the bell, looks like a strong 5, if not a 6... 38dollars? you did well! This is a HepKitty approved purchase!

ksteelheader

Thank you, young lady..........Ken

keithdagen

I have found NGC Frankies to be looser then PCGs

NGC is slightly looser on the grade, but is much stricter on the FBL designation, requiring both sets of bell lines to be full. PCGS just requires the lower bell lines to be full.

LucyBop

often most PCGs coins would pass the FBL guidelines for NGC as well. These are the ones I look for, however, the coin in question is a 53s for 38 dollars..... what a steal that would be if it were FBL!!!!!

ksteelheader

Lucy, you are reading my mind..................Ken

LucyBop

Many good scores can be found in NGC holders but examine those lines carefully. I have looked at literally thousands of graded Frankies and have found many NGC coins that wouldn't even get the FBL with PCGs..... but that is a exception to the majority..... if you find em and the price is right snatch em up. All my ms66FBL's have strong Bell Lines and all of them are full and sharp...

braddick

My limited experience has shown that NGC MS65's are generally PCGS's MS65's (rarely does an NGC coin get into a PCGS 64 holder within this series).
The NGC MS66's and even more so, the MS67's are a half to a full point looser, most of the time and have difficulty crossing.

Keith is accurate on FBL's. NGC is tough on these- more so than PCGS. If there is a tick on the bell line forget about getting NGC to "FBL" the coin- PCGS is a bit more lax.

pmh1nic

Lucy

I can only speak from my limited experience but that experience has been the opposite as far as FBL's are concerned. If NGC gives the FBL designation you don't have to search and rotate the coin in every direction to find the lines. PCGS seems a lot more liberal on the FBL designation.

LucyBop

I have found some NGC coins that shouldn't have gotten the FBL designation the same way I have found PCGs coins that shouldn't have gotten the des... NGC coins for the most part have very strong lines and if they can be crossed present a strong value... But I have seen many NGC 5's that would only go into a 4 holder with PCGs.... If one can buy NGC coins for a lesser of a price, by all means do it! Also, Segs coins can be tremendous values as well....

ksteelheader

ttt

FC57Coins

I agree with Lucy and PMH - NGC tends to be somewhat loser in overall grading - though they have been getting stricter. As for Bell lnes - NGC FBL's are not brainers, PCGS FBLs can sometimes waffle. Overall I think both services are driving toward overall consistency and competence, though the market still puts a preference in PCGS graded coins.

Frank

DCAMFranklin

Ken- From those scans, the coin appears to be MS-65. Personally, I believe in the "political" bias and have seen it at work. I would't cross the coin. Crack it out and send it raw.

I agree with Frank regarding the FBL. The NGC FBL will be extremely bold and you don't have to turn the coin around and around to find an angle where the bell lines appear to be full. That is not the case with the PCGS Franklin. Now, nobody will give you any benefit of the doubt on a '53-S.

As for higher grade FBL Populations, I think the numbers speak for themselves. This could be off by a few recent submissions.

Numbers are for ALL dates combined.

PCGS: MS-66FBL: 2,398...................MS-67FBL: 44

NGC: MS-66FBL: 292.................MS-67FBL: 9

DCAMFranklin

ttt

FC57Coins

Ken - here are a couple of scans of MS65's that I've recently gotten. To me there's a certain cleaness - almost crisp feeling to MS65 Franklins graded by PCGS that you sometimes don't find in NGC coins. I've crossed over a number of coins from NGC to PCGS, but I've had better luck cracking them. I got these two coins primarily because I like the toning on them, but once I received them, I loved the clean fields and crisp strikes. I'm of the feeling that if I were to crack these two coins and send them to NGC, at least one, if not both would grade MS66 in their eyes.

Frank

ksteelheader

Frank, thanks very much for the info. Here is a link to another coin I purchased on Friday...............Ken
...................................................................................link

LucyBop

Very nice buy and a good price... I like this one....

ksteelheader

Thanks Lucy.......Ken

LucyBop

Hey Ken.... the link with the coin you bought Friday from Wayne... is currently up for auction.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3015033425&category=11973

MrKelso

<< <i>Hey Ken.... the link with the coin you bought Friday from Wayne... is currently up for auction.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3015033425&category=11973 >>



I like the one for $38.50 better.

MrKelso

See what Lucy started her love of Frankies rubbed off on me. This one belongs to my Grandson who is Lucy's new nephew.

MadMonk

My experience is that NGC is looser technically on the grade, but absolutely tougher on FBL. You can have success crossing if you really know how the services grade. Up to 65 is easier, 66 and up can be tougher.

LucyBop

And my nephew is a living doll! Me and Coz have to do everything in our power to see to it that he is brought up correctly...