Pattern Questions re Judd-1254

oreville

I have had a J-1254 for the past 6 years. It is an 1872 type II $20 proof Liberty in aluminum. It is in a PCGS PR65 slab and I also have the NGC PR65 insert along with it.

Questions: It is officially an R-7. If so why haven't any other J-1254 appeared in over 25 years or more?

Where are they? Is it possible this should be considered an R-8?

RKKay

Hi, Oreville. According to my sources, it's a high R7 or R8. That can explain why you never see it. As well, if you have both tags, yours is the only one that has been graded by either PCGS or NGC.


Edited to add: Possibly, the other one to three are in a private collector's home, raw.

DAM

Oreville,

Have you considered sending the cert to NGC to correct the pop report?

Just curious.

oreville

Dam: I do not want to send the insert back to NGC. I want to keep it as proof that it was also graded PR65 by NGC at a time when they were reasonably tough on proof issues.

If it were the other way, I would also want to keep the PCGS insert as well.

This does explain why some pop reports are overstated.

RKKay: Yes, I understand that the others are raw but what grades are they? I would love to find them and look at them and compare if they have been properly stored.

Aluminum is so difficult to keep pristine.

I also have the J-1372 and J-1380 in the same grades and double inserts. Only one graded of each although I have seen another raw J-1380 but not a PR65.

RKKay

PM sent.

MrEureka

I doubt that there are any die trials of ANY denomination dated 1870-85 for which there exist more than 4-5 pieces. I suspect that your piece is R8. It's a great coin!

DAM

Oreville,

Your answer makes sense, especially since both services graded it the same.

I'll have to get my pattern book out when I get home to see what your coins look like.

Julian

I agree with Andy.

tradedollarnut

Oreville: I have an 1875 Regular Design Die Trial trade dollar in copper. Same rarity, yet I have never seen another offered for sale. In fact, I've never seen any of the other dates known (73-76, 80-84) offered for sale either.

Draco

Oreville: I'd love to see some photo's if you have them

oreville

Draco: I don't have any current photos of these patterns except that I did buy them from Jay Parrino back in 1997. He had a pretty good eye for quality in those patterns. If you had any of his old catalogues the pics are right in there.

He told me these patterns would take 10 years from 1997 to awaken. Looks like he was wrong as usual. Only 6 years and all of a sudden bam! what happened?? Now everyone wants these things!! I better complain to Jay as I thought I had another 4 years to continue my pattern acquisitions.

Andy: Thanks, anytime (After April 15th) I can bring these patterns (and others I have) to you so you can photo them for the uspatterns.com web site. It is about time these patterns get to be seen. Heck, I go by your neighborhood nearly once a week these days. I would love to drop by and see your new entity in action!!

TDN: Yes, that is indeed a wonderful Trade Dollar pattern!! I believe we even discussed it at one point.

RKKay: PM just received.