Who should get SCR***D on the junk coins? Where does it stop?
mrdq
Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭
not-so-hypothetical situation.
Coin collector (CC) buys a coin from Nationally Recognized Dealer (NRD). NRD sends out emails regularly, MANY people including people of this forum hail NRD as a guy who "Knows his stuff" regarding this particular series. He's in "all the publications" as an advertiser and as a contributing columnist, albeit on rare occasions. CC meets NRD at a national show, checks out his stuff and buys a few coins RAW. CC sends them to PCGS and they ALL come back bodybagged cleaned, whizzed, altered surfaces. Now CC feels like strangling NRD because he sold the garbage but of course it's "Buyer beware" on raw material. NRD probably had them bodybagged himself and decided to dump them on a newbie. So now CC learns more, talks to more people and realizes "Ya, that's whizzed obviously! NRD ripped me off". Does CC
1. Dump them on ebay
2. try try again to get them certified somewhere
3. keep them as "fillers" and write it off as a $1,046.00 lesson
4. ________________ (fill in the blank)
WHO is responsible for yanking the crap out of circulation? Should the first person to recognize the coins as "uncertifiable" eat the cost? should NRD put on his little flips "1954 washington quarter (whizzed)"? or do we just perpetuate the scam and screw the next guy on the chain? At this point i'm sitting on a 1909S VDB with a glued on S that my father bought in 1978 for $325.00. I have NO intention of selling it (even selling it AS a fake coin) because I think that SOMEONE out there is going to try to get greedy and pass it off as genuine, much like the Tampa FL dealer that ripped off my dad. But wait.. did the dealer GLUE on the S? Did he buy it as 1909S VDB? Did he pay $300 and sell it for $325 not knowing it was fake? Now that I KNOW IT'S FAKE is it MY responsibility to pack it away for a novelty? Do I melt it down?
The buck stops............ where?
Coin collector (CC) buys a coin from Nationally Recognized Dealer (NRD). NRD sends out emails regularly, MANY people including people of this forum hail NRD as a guy who "Knows his stuff" regarding this particular series. He's in "all the publications" as an advertiser and as a contributing columnist, albeit on rare occasions. CC meets NRD at a national show, checks out his stuff and buys a few coins RAW. CC sends them to PCGS and they ALL come back bodybagged cleaned, whizzed, altered surfaces. Now CC feels like strangling NRD because he sold the garbage but of course it's "Buyer beware" on raw material. NRD probably had them bodybagged himself and decided to dump them on a newbie. So now CC learns more, talks to more people and realizes "Ya, that's whizzed obviously! NRD ripped me off". Does CC
1. Dump them on ebay
2. try try again to get them certified somewhere
3. keep them as "fillers" and write it off as a $1,046.00 lesson
4. ________________ (fill in the blank)
WHO is responsible for yanking the crap out of circulation? Should the first person to recognize the coins as "uncertifiable" eat the cost? should NRD put on his little flips "1954 washington quarter (whizzed)"? or do we just perpetuate the scam and screw the next guy on the chain? At this point i'm sitting on a 1909S VDB with a glued on S that my father bought in 1978 for $325.00. I have NO intention of selling it (even selling it AS a fake coin) because I think that SOMEONE out there is going to try to get greedy and pass it off as genuine, much like the Tampa FL dealer that ripped off my dad. But wait.. did the dealer GLUE on the S? Did he buy it as 1909S VDB? Did he pay $300 and sell it for $325 not knowing it was fake? Now that I KNOW IT'S FAKE is it MY responsibility to pack it away for a novelty? Do I melt it down?
The buck stops............ where?
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Comments
Your question illustrates the necessity of studying before buying raw coins. Know which coins and which series have a lot of fakes to start with. It also shows why getting an adequate return policy is important. If the return deadline is past, then you've bought yourself a coin. I would say that whizzed and cleaned coins should be sold with that description.
No, it must be destroyed.
As poster on this BBS, it is your duty to destroy all "uncertifiable" coinage. Melting is prefered, however coins such as these may be disposed of in the ocean as long as you are 2 miles off shore.
Remeber, dealers have a family to feed. As a collector - it's up to you to keep the hobby pure.
My posts viewed
since 8/1/6
<< <i>Remeber, dealers have a family to feed. As a collector - it's up to you to keep the hobby pure. >>
So that's one vote for Carpe Diem (SP?).. NRD "Gets away with it"
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Melt it indeed! I think that's the best thing for that S-VDB, but a whizzed coin? Are you sure? We may just have to agree to differ on that one.
You can see why they must sink deep or burn hot. ANYTHING else will still show up for sale
My posts viewed
since 8/1/6
Doesn't bother me as much as it would PCGS... and I really don't need ANACS to put a AG3 market value on it either. I know it's worth much more than that. I might start using SEGS
How are others to learn of the problem coins out there if they all get pulled off and destroyed. I learned from getting burned and each time I learned something very important and it had much more of an impact than if I had read about it in a book. So, I believe that one should re-sell it to the next guy so he is not deprived of the experience. Just think how sanitary and boring it would be to collect coins in a world where there were few to no fake, altered, whizzed or doctored coins out there. Where would the adrenaline rush come from when you buy a coin at way below book thinking you just got a deal later to find out it is a fake (llearning you got a bum deal causes adrenaline rush #2). Now you know something you did not before and feel proud that you have added to your knowledge about coins but are still out the money for the coin so you sell it to someone else experiencing a 3rd adrenaline rush knowing that you have not only recouped some or all of your loss but have done a good thing for your fellow man by allowing him the same experiences you had. If you look at it nobody gets hurt unless the process stops then the last person holding the coin looses. The only caveat one should abide by is that when you sell the coin to someone else you should not gouge the person causing him to lose an amount that is grossly unfair. Of course certain peoples threshold for pain is higher so that dollar figure can vary a great deal from person to person.
So you can see that leaving the bad coins as tools to learn from is a beneficial thing and only hurts someone if the process stops, otherwise like a pyramid scheme it just keeps on producing benefits.
<< <i>Now CC feels like strangling NRD because he sold the garbage but of course it's "Buyer beware" on raw material >>
such a broad statement is bogus & a disservice. numerous dealers guarantee their raw material, & most will guarantee for life on authenticity.
"buyer beware" applied when you buy coins from an illegitimate "dealer", or a "dealer wannabe". buy from reputable dealers, & i doubt you'll have problems, either slabed or raw.
oh, & having loud-mouthed full-page ads in "coin-prices" magazine, etc, does not make someone "reputable"
K S
Is that picture of ACG's grading set for ms70 coins?
DO NOT MELT THEM!
I am a newer collector, who has no intention of ever selling the stuff I have. Any of it. I do not actively set out to buy whizzers, or fakes and will not pay the book value for either, but I would happily pay someone the true value for a whizzed coin. Why? Because of 3 reasons...
#1 - I can have examples of altered surfaces to learn from. This has already saved me a bundle on some coins that I would not have known if not for buying a few whizzed coins.
#2 - The mint does not make 1877 (or whatever year they are) coins anymore. Whizzed or not, melting them will only remove them from existance, leaving those who hold the others better off, and poor schmucks like me unable to ever get them.
#3 - It allows a lot of education for children. My daughter can take a whizzed 1888 Morgan dollar to school, and give an essay to her 5th grade class, pass it around, touch it, drop it, and I do not care. Let's see your precious PCGS MS-65 go to class before you have it slabbed!
If you melt it, there is nothing but a fairly worthless lump of silver. If anyone wants to sell their junk, their whizzed, their over-dipped for melt, PM me and we can talk. There are a ton of kids out there who are easily influenced. Don't believe me? Give a 5th grader a dateless buffalo and watch their reaction!
These are nice coins to pass on to younger collectors starting out. It gives them something nice to hold and allows them to see detail they wouldn't see on a lesser grade, unmessed with coin.