Toning: proofs vs. business strikes

dan1ecu

In your experience, do business strikes tone differently than proofs? If so, does it have anything to do with the texture of the coin’s surface?

Dan

michael

for me proofs and ms coins tone about the same given that eaxh coin ms and proof were treated the same as they left the mint by their owners and sat side by side in the same environment and holders thereof

they might look different because of the surfaces

like for deep proofs vs textured satin mintstate coins with booming lustre the proofs most always but not always will have more flash to them in general

now you get some mintstate coins that are prooflike/or booming lsutre cartwheel lustre thruogh the toning if the toning is all in the right places the right colors as for the same proof coin the mintstare coin is rarer and as beautiful or more!!!!!!!!1!!

i guess individual coins need to be sight seen to understand this and with an inexact science as eye appeal of coins it is on a case by case basis

and as per the above i am talking about pre 1915 proof and ms coins copper/silver and nickel and also walkers and buffs!

other coins i have absolutely no experience with

sincerely michael

dan1ecu

Hi, Michael --

I've seen proof seated coins and trade dollars that were almost black with toning. Maybe that's good in that it shows that the coin hasn't been cleaned. I think I'd rather have a coin like that than one that is dipped and has a dull white film on it.

I suspect that original, un-messed with coins are becoming difficult to find.

michael

hi there dan
the almost black proof coins say foe example the 1860 to 1865 seated proof halves are downgraded by the services a point or so if the tonihg is black.... blue black and really impeads the mirrors and almost exclusively is not liked by all because of the negative eye appeal

also the proof dipped out pieces that have that dull film white cloudy surfaces is usually bought more by many inexperienced collectors
and is also a terrible negative eye appeal also you usually see the dipped dull white cloudy film more though then the darkly toned aljmost black blue black coins as per the above

and is downright ugly and also undesirable by most all if not most coin buyers!

only buy coins with ezxceptional eye appeal if toned make sure it is exceptional or at least nice!
if dipped white make sure it is really clean clear mirrors deep mirrors like it just got off the dies yesterday!

or just make sure it is pleasing to you after careful consulatation with other more experienced collectors/dealers you have trust in

then it is your decsison

i hope you make the right one!

also only buy coins that you can judge for yourself and only with discretionary funds and for fun

then for me you are doing coins correctly

anything else and you might be kidding yourself

i am sure there are always exceptions to the rules though

sincerely michael

BigD5

As usual, Michael is right on target, but I'll throw my 2c in. I think you can find more toned examples of proof issues than mint state issues because of the way the coins were stored. Way back when, proofs were more of presentation pieces that were all cozied up in tissue paper etc. and put away.....for a long time! MS pieces weren't handled as delicately, or in some cases stored as delicately, so not as many vividly toned examples. Of course, for MOST dates, there were more mint state examples than proofs, so there may seem to be just as many toned proofs as mint state examples floating around. Of course, there are plenty of exceptions.

dorkkarl

<< <i>do business strikes tone differently than proofs? >>

ABSOLUTELY. beautifully toned early proofs, are far, far, FAR more common than beautifully toned early unc b.s.'s, or even high-end AU material w/ gorgeous toning. your gonna find a lot more proof bust seateds, for example, w/ target toning than you will UNC's w/ target toning.

i looked through ever single coin in the most recent heritage catalog, early proofs w/ color are plentiful, but i did not find even a single high-end circ or unc early coin w/ color.

seeking out business-stikes w/ stunning color is much more challenging than getting proofs, imo

K S