PCGS Letter to Collector Club Members: Fees going up and 10 Coin Minimum Submission

RGL

A letter in my mailbox today from PCGS:

Effective April 1, economy fee is $16 and modern is $12 and here's the real kicker -- The minimum submission is 10 coins. That, my friends, is a bad move sure to affect small submitters ...

MadMonk

120.00 TO 160.00 per transaction. It probably makes good business sense. Sometimes it doesnt pay to open the doors if it's going to cost you more. If you get what I'm saying. It costs money to run a business. Probably streamlines, cut's down time acreoss the board, etc. Not a big shock to me. Do I like it? No. Can I deal with it?
Will let you know.

fcloud

LucyBop

more expensive submissions for me!

Russ

I hope nobody is surprised.

Russ, NCNE

MadMonk

I'll be back in a minute, going to go get a fire extinguisher

RGL

Oh, and I guess I should mention that economy turn-around time is listed as 30-45 days and modern is 15 days ... Granted, you save a little bit on processing, etc... but a coin is a coin is a coin ... Would I rather have five coins at $80 in fees or none submitted at all? This will have a cumulative affect from the little guys who send in batches of a few coins at a time (a five-coin minimum makes sense, perhaps, but 10? Watch, submissions will decline and the minimum will be dropped or eliminated.) If I get one back or buy one that is undergraded I have to come up with nine others to send it in for a regrade? And, it appears there is also a 10-coin minimum for crossovers and reholders, as well. They obviously are wanting more $30 regular submissions.

FrattLaw

Bad, bad, bad timing.

Raise rates ect when you are doing a great job, not when your turnaround times are at 50 days and there's a host of other problems to address. And the funny part is that in his letter he states that they have instituted an increase in the minimum submission in order to get coins back to us sooner.

Am I to believe that the hold up and the cause in turnaround times is due to the fact that an encapsulator or a person logging in the coins has to slow down because of the size of the submission? While the graders sit around begging for coins to grade?

To Mr. Hall -- are the encapsulators being paid piece-meal per slab or by the hour? If it's by the hour in order to control costs, perhaps putting them back on piece-meal might get them to move a little faster. Just a suggestion since this is probably what happened since it happened @ PSA.

To me that's a kick in the face. Does DH have anyone with common sense standing near him during these meetings when things like this are decided? Or is it a situation of all "YES" men and women? C'mon, someone at PCGS must have thought this was a bad idea, speak up at these meetings.

Michael

Russ

<< <i>Raise rates ect when you are doing a great job, not when your turnaround times are at 50 days and there's a host of other problems to address. >>



That would be precisely why rates are being raised. The turnaround time is caused in large part by staffing levels, thus the solution is adding more staff. People don't work for free.

What would the alternative be? Add staff to improve the problems and continue to bleed buckets of red ink until the doors are locked and the furniture hauled out?

From a business survival standpoint, I don't see where they have any choice.

Russ, NCNE

RGL

Another question: What about the "freebies" we get with Collectors Club membership and for 90-percent completion of sets? We have to add extra coins/$$$$$ to take advantage of our "free" submissions we have purchased and "earned" by being loyal to PCGS coins?

LucyBop

the little collectors who might be feeling a pinch with a 10 coin minium can team up with a buddy, 5 coins each and split the costs....

FrattLaw

Russ

You didn't notice this part --


To Mr. Hall -- are the encapsulators being paid piece-meal per slab or by the hour? If it's by the hour in order to control costs, perhaps putting them back on piece-meal might get them to move a little faster. Just a suggestion since this is probably what happened since it happened @ PSA.

How fast someone works on an assembly line can also impact the product moving out the door.

By the way -- I got the Kennedys -- wow -- nice AT job. Not you of course but who you got them from.

Michael

Russ

<< <i>How fast someone works on an assembly line can also impact the product moving out the door. >>



It also impacts the quality and consistency of the service. And, what is the number one complaint around here?

I've also got a Walker I'll be sending along for the project. It's an Easyman product.

Russ, NCNE

Gilbert

hmmm. curious.

Are you saying that it is going from no minimum submission to 10 coin requirement, OR are you talking about economy submissions ONLY?

Are you talking about "snail mail" (USPS) or email?

Finally, you are already getting freebies that I don't get. If PCGS evens us up on freebies, would that offend you? Not trying to be facetious, but I seriously want to know.

BTW, that amounts to a $1 and $2 increase respectively?

RGL

Gilbert: Yes, Economy cost is going up $1 to $16 and Modern is going up $2 to $12. A 10-coin minimum submission applies to both. There previously was no minimum. You get "freebies" by purchasing a Collectors Club membership ($99 one-year membership gets you four submissions) and when you hit 90-percent completion on a registry set, you can e-mail PCGS and receive an authorization code to submit some coins for "free" grading, with the number based on the number of coins in your registry set.

jom

Lame attempt at a poem:

Won’t fall for the multiple submission
Saving money is my mission
Buy the coin not the holder
Won’t submit ‘til I’m older
PCGS won’t see my participation
I’ll crack the coin for emancipation
Free Free Free the coins will roll
Once free, I know where they won't go

jom

jeffnpcb

I really don't see a big problem here. I wait and see to submit, although only three times in the last year, but there were always at least 15 coins on the list. Any less is a waste of time. If you are in a big hurry, have them submitted through a PCGS dealer or another company.
If you collect one coin at a time and submit a few, what happens on that lucky day where you can improve on what you have? Sit back, relax and things will sort themselves out!
No I am not a dealer, sell on eBay or other sites. If I improve or have doubles, I will try to sell locally or contact people in this forum if they are interested.

fishcooker

Well, that blows me away. Lucy won't have to wait in line behind me.

MadMarty

I don't mind them raising the price, if the turnaround time gets better. But I can see them losing lot's of pre-modern (50s and early 60s) to NGC. I have 10 1964 Kennedy halves PCGS $160 vs. NGC $110. That's a big difference on the 55-64 coins. PCGS should match that if they want to stay competative in that market!

DMWJR

Hey, you've got two weeks to get you coins in! And PCGS will get a surge of cash flow in the next two weeks two.

Dog97

Hey that's a great idea raising the rates and number of coins you submit! If PCGS wants less work to do that is certianly one way to go about doing it.

nwcs

I'm surprised by this. I haven't got anything in the mail yet. Wonder when I will?

MrKelso

So in other words, I can't just send one coin every so often i have to have 10? If thats so then no more for me as it would take me 10 years to have 10 coins to have graded.

CYBERKEN

This would certainly indicate that the idea of no one using PCGS anymore because "they are not being consistent" (i.e., they are maintaining high grading standards in the face of a coin market that is heating up) was just fantasy.

Or, as Yogi said, "Nobody goes there anymore, because it's too crowded."

Glad I got a bunch in at $15. I have no problem with sending my next 10 at $16. They do a GREAT JOB...

CYBERKEN

You absolutely have it backwards:

When you are swamped with coins, and the stress is getting to your staff, THAT IS WHEN YOU RAISE PRICES, hire more people, and raise the minimum quantity. Because THAT indicates that you are NOT CHARGING ENOUGH.

Perhaps two years ago, $15 was just fine. But THE MARKET is telling PCGS that prices are too low, and submission lots are too small.

When the market tells PCGS something else, PCGS will make different decisions. But don't hold your breath waiting for their submissions to slow. This, IMO, is the beginning of an avalanche, and we may see $20 plus on ecomony and a 15-20 minimum before this subsides.

$39K for a '63 cent that's not even that great may have broken a flood dike that could swamp PCGS for a year or more...

Lori

Boy, that really stinks for those of us that don't have many raw coins to submit. I would have to save for 1/2 year or so to get 10 coins to submit at one time. I guess ANACS will get my business then. I think that is a bad move and may (will) cost them customers.

Lori

CYBERKEN

Not exactly. You can send 1 coin for regular or express service. They just don't NEED that many more submissions at $16 right now. It's taking 50 days, That's the problem they have to deal with...

CYBERKEN

Marty,

You don't think NGC will react to the price increase? There aren't exactly a lot of firms in this market...

kranky

As jeffnpcb mentioned, can't you just submit through a dealer if you don't have 10 coins?

Russ

<< <i>As jeffnpcb mentioned, can't you just submit through a dealer if you don't have 10 coins? >>



One could also piggy back on a friend's submission. I've added other people's coins to mine.

Russ, NCNE

braddick

Lori- Great WebSite! That NGC MS68 1996 silver Eagle is beautiful.

-Regarding PCGS and rates- I've always wondered why Moderns were a third less in cost to grade. ALL coins should run the same rate at this level of service. Instead of $12. for Moderns and $16. for Economy, maybe $15.00 per coin, no matter if it's a 1963 Franklin or a 1973 Washington quarter would level the playing field and allow PCGS to maintain a healthy bottom line.

DMWJR

If you buy a $150 outdoor grill, would you consider paying $16 for a cover to protect it?

If you have a $20 coin should you be paying $12 to slab it?

So the landscape changed, big deal. Just adjust you habits accordingly. PCGS has probably made an informed decision and thinks it will benefit from the change. If it doesn't, I'm sure they will adjust their prices accordingly.

keets

.............and just one more example of the cumulative knee-jerk reaction of the forum. why is everyone in such a hurry to get worked up about things?? i swear, no matter what PCGS does it's going to get this type of reaction out of at least a part of this board. why not just settle down, think calmly and make decisions that are right for your situation??

Cyberken was probably closer to a realistic assessment of things than most. all that's been talked of lately is slow submission turnaround times and when measures are taken that don't agree with a personal point of view the company is shooting itself in the foot!!! DUH!!!

send somewhere else and save $10 on fees but lose $100 on market value. boycott the forum and go over to numisaddict and talk about the problem till it's cold. pull out of the registry. sell all your coins because it's all about money anymore. hey, i'll show you, i'll hurt me!!! man, when are some of you guys gonna get right with yourselves and stop taking these things so personally??

al h.

braddick

Doug- If that grill cover is the SAME, then yes- I'd expect to pay the same.

Should you pay more for your gasoline if you drive a $40,000 BMW then your neighbor who is driving a $1,500.00 Chevrolet Caprice?

LucyBop

<< <i> pull out of the registry. >>



More registry for me!

braddick

Doug- One more thought: Not all Moderns are "$20.00" coins and all Classics, more expensive.
That $3,500.00 MS67 Clad Ike cost $12. to grade and your MS62 1881-S Morgan (a $22. coin) is $16.00?

keets

hey pat

please don't be daft. i'm sure what doug is alluding to is that if you HAVE a $20 coin it is a bit foolhardy to spend $12 to have it slabbed. he isn't argueing that a lesser value coin should be slabbed for less. c'mon!!! but i think you know that already.

al h.

dbldie55

Since I send all through my dealer, this should not matter much. One question though, can you piggy back a modern on a classic submission and pay $16 for it?

braddick

Actually Keets, I didn't read that into his post, but do now upon a re-read. Thanks for pointing it out.

(Of course my opinion is from someone who has spent $15.00 to grade a "$1.00" coin (AG03 Ike dollar!) so I'm not coming from a place of enlightenment! )

keets

ROTFLMAO!!!!! and of course i had forgotten that unique perspective of yours!!!

long live the PO1 grade.

al h.

Russ

<< <i>One question though, can you piggy back a modern on a classic submission and pay $16 for it? >>



Yes.

Russ, NCNE

MadMarty

<< <i>You don't think NGC will react to the price increase? There aren't exactly a lot of firms in this market... >>



NGC modern economy is already $11 a coin, but NGC modern is 1955 to present, not 1965 to present.

beartracks42

If the price to grade a modern is $12 for a gold member, what will it be for a silver member? Was there anything in the announcement about the silver member pricing? The reason that I ask is that some of us may not be gold/platinum members in the future.

DMWJR

Braddick, my point exactly. I just bought a $1,000 "modern" coin. Do you think I give a flip if I had to pay $2 more to have it graded?

And if the gasoline I put in my car made it worth 10X another kind of gasoline would, I wouldn't think twice about paying 20% more for the gasoline.

braddick

Doug- Excellent.

Speaking of gas, there is a station or two in El Cajon (a town about 30 minutes from me) that is selling gas at $3.29. They're not popular right now!
(Here is Encinitas it's right about $2.19- $2.39).

DMWJR

Ah, Braddick, I have been to the "Gateway to San Diego." Stopped by the Harley shop and bought a T-Shirt. They had some great old bikes on display.

Bikingnut

Well, I guess there's no reason for me to renew my gold level membership. I guess what PCGS really should do is go back to the old way of doing business; close submissions to everyone except dealers.

braddick

If that Harley shop is the one on Coast Highway 101 in Solana Beach, you're right. It's a local attraction. The owner's a great guy too- a real love for bikes.

keets

......and we gripe here in NE Ohio because we think $1.60 is too much!!!

al h.

wallstreetman

I told you the plastic was cheap! Lets see, my hundreds of slabs just made me hundreds of dollars!

Condor, You may want to start slabbing your slabs!

Protect that plastic, you may be able to retire off them!

Russ

Does anybody have Wallstreetman Translator Ver. 5.0 handy? All I have is a beta copy and it couldn't make any sense out of that last post.

Russ, NCNE