Customer Service is key to running a business, that is if you care to do business with the general public. If you don't than it will end up rubbing off on your other customers that you choose to do business with.
I often hear coin dealers say their time gets wasted from collectors. And I agree being in business time does indeed get wasted. But it's all in the cost of being in business.
I happen to be self employed in a service business. I'm in the yellow pages and you better believe I have calls that waste my time, and I also weed them out, in a nice way though. I have people that want bids and aren't serious, they are just curious. Not only is my time wasted just like the coin dealers with phone calls, but I drive to the place, consult with them, come back and type up a bid, either bring it back to them or fax it back. Then after they get what they want they won't even return my call when I follow up.
But am I complaining? Yes, but the key is I don't let it rub off on my customers. Frankly, I hear all too often how dealers hate getting their time wasted, but if their time was so precious, why do they spend it complaining about it on here.
Now I'm not flaming dealers here, I'm just stating my opinion from another business perspective.
Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
To answer the original question of why websites are poorly designed:
I think Legend's is pretty good, but it's been a work in process over the years. Everytime something new is added, it gets pushed into a new corner. Legend's two active partners work on average 300 days a year and almost half of those days are out of town. Between traveling to shows, listing & imaging coins, talking to customers, putting coins on ebay, advertising layouts, looking for coins for me [ ], making travel arrangements, doing the books, etc - where's the time to direct a full website redesign to make it look/work smoother?
TDN: Sounds like you better move east. I have clients who can get you a nice apartment! 600 days between 2 persons could be cut back to a more manageable 200 working days a year split among 3 persons!!!!
Well rested persons work best!!
Oh by the way, bring those trade dollars east too so I can see them in person!!
I started a part two thread for this, but here are thoughts on website development:
The internet has leveled the playing field between one person show and international conglomerate. Ten years ago, marketing materials were much more dollar intensive than they are now, as most marketing materials were printed on paper. Brochures were $1,000.00 per page at minimum and to produce a catalog or brochure of any significant design and content was a $20,000.00 effort, with the biggest portion of the expense being putting the ink on the paper.
Today, ANY COMPANY can look like a million bucks on the internet. Granted design and content development isn't free, and if you hire a real pro, as opposed to a hack, you can expect to pay - but nowhere near what you would pay for printed material. A few thousand dollars will go a long way in elevating the impression your company portrays.
Before creating a site - any site - get a feel for what looks good. There is a vast library of material on the internet in the form of the websites of the world's best companies. Go to websites like chrysler.com, jaguarcars.com, allstate, motorola, historychannel, generalmotors, generalelectric, etc, etc, etc. See what a really professional website looks like, feels like and how it navigates. See how it communicates to you. There is not a site on the internet that another person can't duplicate with relatively simple software and a pc.
This is not to say that you should copy someone else's design, but merely to illustrate how easy it is to LOOK LIKE a really professional outfit.
Once you know what looks good - start planning. Start with your hierarchy of what will be presented and break it into categories. Take individual elements and group them in categories. No one minds clicking through stuff, especially if you keep them informed as they go through page after page. You WANT your customer to navigate. Create an org chart of general categories and position your sub-catgeories within these.
Figure out a framework and make it consistent. Your banner - be it top or side should appear on every page to make navigating easy. Likewise the buttons. Collapsing menus are easy to develop and easy to use. When I visit a site that employs user friendly features, I want to stick around.
A good rule of thumb is to break your presentations of subjects down to individual pages which can be viewed without scrolling up, down or sideways. One page should be able to be tastefully viewed on the screen. Allow easy navigation from each page.
Use reasonable amounts of space. I have 21" monitors, however, I design nothing that can't be viewed as a single page on a 15" monitor. While I use 1200 x 1600, the majority of the browsing world doesn't use a resolution over 480 x 640.
Use a color palette and limit your use of color to complimentary colors. Limit your font and font size selections. The internet actually uses a very small amount of type faces, and it is absolutely not necessary to try and use them all. If you have a toss up between large type, and not-so-large type - go for understated. Again - visit websites of industry leaders and see how tastefully their sites are prepared. Feel free to copy a good color scheme. Avoid backgrounds - they just make it tough to read your material. Try sticking to sans serif typefaces, as they are most readable. If you really want to use serifs, use them for headings, keeping your text sans serif.
Photos do not have to be overpowering to be effective. Thumbnails which link to "supersize" windows will satisfy most collectors.
Most importantly - remember to WIIFM. Tell your visitor What's In It For Me (them). Nobody cares about what you are "proud" of, what your family or family dog looks like (sorry dog lovers - I'm being blunt for your own good). They DO care about what you have to offer, your professional credentials and your credibility.
Avoid needless animation, bells and whistles. Animated gifs have gone the way of the buggy whip. You don't need flash affects on every page. Flash is bandwidth hog and frustrates those with a dial up connection. Try fireworks rollovers - very nice, very stylish and easy on the modem.
Make contacting you easy - both via email and by listing your address, phone and fax numbers prominently.
If you are going to hire outside help - don't hire a graphics person - hire a communicator who has graphics capability, or access to it. What your site says, and how well it is organized has much more to do with its success then how snappy the graphics are. Avoid the temptation to write it yourself. You are way to close to the subject and too emotionally involved to do an effective job. Get an absolutely unbiased third party to review it for you, and TAKE THEIR ADVICE.
Update regularly. Nothing is more frustrating than an out of date site. If I see a coin I would like to purchase, I really don't want to find out it was sold two weeks ago.
If you must your own website - use good software. The Macromedia suite - dreamweaver, fireworks and flash is easy to use and there is hardly a site on the internet that cannot be made using these products. There is not a badge of honor for creating a website using html code created in notepad.
Random thoughts on how to start thinking about an effective website. If it helps, great. If I have offended someone's website, I apologize, as that was not my intent. If any of these comments cause a dealer - be they major, or the "vest pocket" variety - or a collector for that matter, to rethink a website that could be improved, then it's all good.
"I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather did, as opposed to screaming in terror like his passengers."
Frank Mentioned a part II but I must have missed it. I'm hoping everyone gets off Laura as she probably feels like she is getting accosted right now
Personally, I like the layout of Laura's site but let's get the mind set off her site right now....
I have created various websites in my time using a VI, Text Editors, FrontPage Express, FrontPage 2000.. and the list is endless I generally like using FrontPage... even though I'm pretty good at using a text editor, it just makes it simple for me. Even though I use FrontPage, I always look at the HTML coding and change it around to suit my need.
Spelling/Grammer: I use a spell check as much as I can. I make a good deal of mistakes as I just type away. I have been very conscious of your, you're, your....etc. Although I could let spelling mistakes slide on my webpages, I think if you run a professional site, you really need to watch out for spelling.
Ease Of Use: I have seen too many sites in which navagating it was a real issue. Click on a link and you are taken to never never land. Although you have a back button, a website should always have a way for you to return to the previous page and should always have a link back to the main page.
Format: My biggest pet peeve is seeing a webpage that does not fit inside a window (width), other than that, I hate fancy colors on fancy backgrounds in which you can hardly read the page. I have always liked Black Background with White Text (similar to Laura) but a good many people find it hard to read and hard on the eyes. On the most part, I have switched back to a White Background and Black Text. DON'T USE COMIC SANS ... I am guilty of this at times too!
Images: If your images are too big, they will take forever to load. Compress those images! (I am guilty of this from time to time as I have a cable connection and my images load pretty quickly, I don't think of the dial up users)
Counters, Music, pop-ups and Banner Ads: I do not accept any cookies unless I know the site and where that information is going to. Although these things can add spice to your site, use them within reason. The only thing Pop Up ads do is annoy people. I avoid sites that use a great deal of the above items.
A quick loading page makes everyone happy, getting lost in a website makes people unhappy.
Hello everyone. Since this is a thread about coin websites, we would appreciate your criticism (positive or negative) about our newly redesigned website:
James, the brains of our company, is the developer of the website. He did all of the design and programming. If you like it, then I will take the credit. If you have negative comments, then I will forward those comments to James.
SarasotaFrank, it's not that I like you or anything, but I don't think that you did anything wrong. Seems to me that you went out of your way to NOT mention names. Also, I do think that the statement that is on XXXXXXXXXXXXX's website is elitist and a slap in the face to lowly collectors such as myself.
Come on gents, a little basic logic here. The coin business is a small group where most everyone knows the other guy pretty well. Anytime you quote negatively in a public forum on what some dealer said, what they wrote, etc. you are going to get called on it in the majority of the cases. Simple as that. To think that quotes drawn from Legend's website were not going to get further attention here was either rather naive or the actual attempt was just a way to hide some criticism behind a "website thread" smoke screen.
As far as the comparison to RCNH, it all depends on the individual. I've noticed that most of what RCNH has for sale in my area of expertise comes from major auctions where I can bid against them for the same coin. Sometimes I win, sometimes they win. Legend also buys through that route too. But additionally Legend has a much larger selection of "elitist" coins available and they seem to have the connections to come up with more interesting coins. I go where the coins are that interest me. Whether I buy them or not, depends on the coin and the price...not necessarily the plastic, website, or even the selling dealer.
I'm sorry that I got into this thread so late, but I have to agree with SarasotaFrank. I was on your site last week Laura. I had a list and was going to fill it from you. I felt you were one of the good guys when you stood up for all of us with HRH. I was looking through your inventory and had picked out 3 coins or about $7K if you want dollar figures and then I saw that statement basicly stating that your coins were better than anything I've got. Well Laura that may be good business and I understand what your trying to say, but I felt it was offensive towards me and my collection. So to make a long story short I emptied my shopping cart and left in disgust.
So maybe you do have the top 5% of the coins, but in my opinion until you become more collector friendly you can continue to sell all those coins to those elite collectors and I'll find someone else to give my money to. I'm sure there are some pretty nice coins in that other 95%.
P.S. My spelling sucks so I'm not slamming you on that!
Chris
"The last thing we want to see is a smoking gun. A gun smokes after it's been fired…. If someone waits for a smoking gun, it's certain we will have waited too long."
Legend Numismatics deals primarily in coins that rank in the top 5% for the grade, or coins that are of the FINEST KNOWN quality. While you may have coins that appear to be similar to the images you see on our site, we can assure you, they are not.
Taken out of context, this language might seem a bit tough. But how about reading the balance of the page to put it in context:
Many of the coins we handle were specially made and were meant to be preserved since the time of issue. The slightest fingerprint or hint of wear can knock a coins quality down by several points. It is impossible for a non educated non collector to understand what grading involves, and it is best that a professional looks at any coin you have a question on.
Isn't it obvious that this page is directed at a noncollector who has no background in coins? If a collector is offended by this, they obviously have misinterpreted.
Here's the balance of the page:
PLEASE NOTE !
WE DO NOT GIVE APPRASIALS WITHOUT SEEING THE COINS!
If you do feel you have coins of superior quality, pieces that were passed down since they came from the Mint (prior to 1954), or were assembled by a knowledgeable numismatist, we'd be more than happy to help you evaluate them or we'd love to buy them!
However, if you have "common coins", it would be best to look up your local coin dealer in the phone book and bring your coins to them.
THREE COMMON COINS/SETS WE GET QUESTIONS ON:
1943 CENT - ONLY THE COPPER PIECES ARE RARE! To test if your coin IS copper, use a magnet. Copper will NOT stick to a magnet. Sometimes the Zinc coated ones get so ditry they don't stick either. If you feel you have found an extremely rare copper piece, we suggest you call Numisamtic Guarantee Corp. Of Sarsota Florida (a major independent grading service). They will authenticate it for a small fee.
SILVER DOLLARS. One of the most misundertood coins non collectors find. The average piece we get called about is worth between $4-10.00. The reasons, most Morgan and Peace Dollars are not rare in the lower grades! Plus, if you can hold it in your hand, if it looks worn, or has noticeable cleaning (bad for any coin), then its only worth those numbers at the very best. There is an exception you can look for in the lower grades, Carson City Mint marks (found on Morgans only). A "CC" coin will have a small CC on the bottom of the reverse (just above the rim) at 6:00. Those coins generally are worth a little more in ALL grades.
MODERN PROOF SETS. Generally these sets (after 1959) are worth LESS than what they were sold for by the US Mint. They are traded as a commodities on a daily basis and have clear cut buy/sell spreads. Example: as of 10/28 the buy sell spread on a 1971 PR set still in box was: $4.50/$5.25. Most dealers generally pay about 20% in back of the current published bids and then resell them for "bid".
NOTE: ANY COIN THAT IS MISSING THE DATE OR IS WORN FLAT HOLDS VERY LITTLE VALUE!
Listing of Approximate Values
CENTS Half Cents---$10 to $50 Large Cents --- $5 to $20 Flying Eagle Cents --- $6 to $15 Indian Cents --- $.50 to $2.00 Lincoln Cents (Pre-1958) --- $.02 to $.25
2 & 3 CENTS Two Cent Pieces --- $5 to $15 Three-Cent Silver --- $10 to $20 Three-Cent Nickel --- $5 to $15
NICKELS Shield Nickels --- $5 to $10 Liberty or "V" Nickels --- $.50 to $2 Buffalo Nickels --- $.30 to $2 (No-date -- $ .08) Jefferson Nickels (1942-1945) --- $.25
HALF DIMES Early Half Dimes (1837 and Earlier) --- $80 to $125+ Seated Half Dimes --- $5 to $15
DIMES Bust Dimes (1837 and earlier) --- $15 to $50+ Seated Dimes --- $3 to $8 Barber Dimes --- $1 to $3 Mercury Dimes --- $1 to $3 Roosevelt Dimes (Pre-1965)--- $.20 to $1
20C COINS Twenty Cent Pieces ---- $10 to $30
QUARTERS Bust Quarters (1838 and earlier) --- $15 to $50+ Liberty Seated Quarters ---- $3 to $15 Barber Quarters ---- $1 to $5 Standing Liberty Quarters --- $1 to $3 Washington Quarters (Pre 1965) --- $.75 to $2
HALF DOLLARS Bust Half Dollars (1839 and earlier) --- $15 to $50+ Liberty Seated Half Dollars --- $8 to $20 Barber Half Dollars ---- $4 to $8 Liberty Walking Half Dollars --- $2 to $4 Franklin Half Dollars --- $1.50 to $2.50 Kennedy Half Dollars (1964) --- $1.50 Kennedy Half Dollars (1965-1969) --- $.75 to $1
DOLLARS Early Dollars (Pre 1840) --- $150+ (please call) Liberty Seated Dollars --- $30 to $75+ Morgan Dollars --- $6 to $15+ Peace Dollars --- $5 to $10 Eisenhower Dollars --- $1 to $1.50 Anthony Dollars --- $1
GOLD Gold coins---Call - without seeing a coin it is impossible to judge its value.
UNCIRCULATED coins are worth more than the prices listed, but must be seen to be valued. Sorry, we can not give approximations over the phone
So there you have it - laid out in its entirety and in context. Doesn't seem so bad.
BTW - since Legend doesn't have a shopping cart system on the website: it was a nice story, but it doesn't hold water.
I like some of the buy prices. They will pay up to $15 for a Morgan Dollar or $15 for a bust quarter. Which would you rather own for $15?
Reading the whole thing does shed a different light on the subject, but I still feel that the comments are a bit snobish. For example, the part about taking your "common coins" to your local dealer. That also seems like bad business to me.
You can't be everything to everybody. It's obvious to me that the section needs to have a forward saying it's directed at a noncollector inquiring about circulated common coinage. Legend is a certified dealer. They (or any high end dealer) simply cannot take the time to answer multitudes of questions about inexpensive circulated coinage. If they hired a person to handle this and passed on the cost to their customers, would that be fair? All because a collector gets offended by a section not even directed at him?
Those aren't buy prices. Those are approximate values for the education of the noncollector. That is what this whole section of the website is supposed to be - a free education for someone who has no clue and doesn't know where to look. Snobbish - or direct and to the point?
Since freedom of speech is welcomed, I personally think Laura is an ass.
PLONK
Personally, I think this entire thread should be PLONK'ed -- including Sir Francis of Sarasota the Master Critic and Whiner.
It's become a sad day that we'd decide upon a dealership based on their web site aesthetic appeal and the verbal quality of the dealers. Personally, I think fair pricing, inventory quality, numismatic and industry knowledge, integrity and reliability are far more important.
I've often thought that the Legend web site could be better, that Laura is a lousy writer and speller, and that she can also be a bit crotchety at times. So what? I'm asking her to be my web designer, to write for me, or even to marry me.
And, to those who think that SF's attempt at disguising the object of his critique was a good one ... think again. I knew in the first couple seconds whose site SF quoted. And, I'll bet that many of us here would have been easily able to determine that as well.
This really is a funny thread... Imagine dissing a rare coin dealer simpy because you don't like the typos is bizarre...
Moreover, if you have sincere, constructive criticisms to make, you really should make it privately. It's the polite thing to do. If you want to reference their site truly for educational purposes, it is polite to get prior permission.
I once referenced a Legend article, and it resulted in a lot of ridiculous flaming. (Sorry, Laura, for not asking in advance!)
If you read something that bothers you quite a bit, then why not contact the author first for a clarification before getting all kooky and taking it public?
Remember: do unto others what you want others to do unto you. Remember the Golden Rule.
The primary intent of my post was to ask the question as to why dealers, who can realize the largest volume of business via the internet take so little care in tending to their sites. After all, the internet gives someone working out of a spare bedroom a forum equal to the industry leaders - if they have the service and products to compete on equal footing.
The fact that dealers pay so little attention to their image is an interesting question - interesting to me - and as it turns out, interesting to many others.
On all forums I frequent, you seem to be a knowledgeable and level headed person - why reduce your stature with name calling - it doesn't suit you.
"I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather did, as opposed to screaming in terror like his passengers."
On all forums I frequent, you seem to be a knowledgeable and level headed person - why reduce your stature with name calling - it doesn't suit you.
Because I am thoroughly frustrated by the voluminous vitriolic back-n-forth around here lately. I apologize for calling you a whiner (or whatever it was exactly). When I saw Lava's post calling Laura a mule/horse-like animal that's commonly used as a negative metaphor for a human body part -- that's when I lost it.
If our notes geared at the non collector seem offensive to regualr collectors, I do appologize. I thought common sense would have dictated who they were aimed at.
You try getting DOZENS of calls all day on your toll free line with people who insist they have the same coin as you. It not only costs you money, but we've had MANY times when we are on the phone with a customer and had to get off because some guy on the other end wants to know the best price on our coin so he can offer us his uncertified widget-thats usually worth $4.
And as far as our offering the top 5% for the grade, yeah, we really do try. But not every coin does make that rank. We understand we can't please all the people all the time with how we say things. Call me elitest, but I will always give my customers the best service, coins, and deals possible. I'm not asking anyone here for their biz!
I'm off to Baltimore. Flame away!
Laura Sperber
JUST SAY NO TO WANNABES! They lurk and prey on unwitting collectors in chatrooms!
As a veteran IT person I can say that many people try to do it themselves. Unfortunalty, the charges that they may call excessive are for the skills I have built over years and years. Sometimes, this even includes things like being able to spell and smarts enough to know that I might mistype something, and therefore, spellchecking.
I really wish that there was a state licensing body for tis work. I don't do my own books I hire an accountant, I don't defend myself I hire a lawyer. When you need IT work (Websites, networking, databases, etc.) you need to hire a professional IT person. Get three references from them, follow up, look at thier past work (If they don't have any this is a big clue that they are amatures). Don't rely of the person being a MCSE, MCDBA, whatever, because of two reasons:
A. Not every problems needs Microsoft. B. Not every certified person really knows what thier doing. Many study thier way to passing the test. Hands on experience is what is needed.
End result: You get what you pay for. Plain and Simple
Enjoy
I am just throwing cheese to the rats chewing on the chains of my sanity!
First Place Winner of the 2005 Rampage design contest!
Why would legend need a "better" website. I remember when the internet was going to change everything. As I look back, much has went back to where it was. Tele-commuting was going to be the big thing. Turns out actually being in a person-person contact with your co-workers is quite valuable. If you want to sell something generic, the web is wonderful. I buy all of my computer stuff on the net (maybe I should hire an IT professional to get it from). Same is true for generic coins. Why do people sell modern slabbed coins so easily on the net with no images. You don't need one. They all look the same, and the number on the holder determines the value. This is not so with the top of the line coins.
If legend wants to become a volume dealer, then they will need to re-think their website strategy. If they want to continue to offer the type of coins they do now, they do not need to change anything. Would you buy a ferrari from an online dealer only because they have a "great website"?
I have very rarely hired a mechanic to work on one of my cars, but I am not a mechanic. Why would you pay someone $40-$50 an hour to do something you can do yourself?
Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
<< <i>I'm sorry that I got into this thread so late, but I have to agree with SarasotaFrank. I was on your site last week Laura. I had a list and was going to fill it from you. I felt you were one of the good guys when you stood up for all of us with HRH. I was looking through your inventory and had picked out 3 coins or about $7K if you want dollar figures and then I saw that statement basicly stating that your coins were better than anything I've got. Well Laura that may be good business and I understand what your trying to say, but I felt it was offensive towards me and my collection. So to make a long story short I emptied my shopping cart and left in disgust.
C Thomas, Sorry, but I just don't belive you. If you really wanted those "$ 7000.00" worth of coins, you would not have let that stop you. Also, Legend does not have a "shopping cart" feature on their site.
Civility and politeness are some of the hallmarks of a gentleman and a lady.
Whenever we descend to the level of name calling and excessive harshness
we merely highlight our shortcomings and inadequacies. A Forum should not
be used as a dumping ground for the venom and spite we build up in our normal
daily activities. Such dumping of intense and negetive feelings and thoughs, while
entertaining to some, are what can often make this Forum a blood sport in stead
of a pleasent harbour of relaxation and fun.We all lose our cool at some time, but to do
it on a continuing bases is truly deplorable. Those indeviduals who egg on such activities
and continually pour gasoline on the fire are perhaps the most despicable of culprits.
They substitute rashness and aggressiveness for reason and calm resolve. If we are truly an
extended family and I believe we are, then there are rules of the home that should be observed.
Wipe the dirt of ones shoes before you enter the Forum.
Delay your reponse when you are extremely angry.
If you feel that your response is over the top, dont send it, delete it.
If a person is an idiot, they already know that in their hear, you dont have to continue to remind them.
If you say or show a picture that ridicules another,think how you would feel before you put it on the Forum. Are a few laughs at someone elses expense truly worth the pain it will cause that person.
Humour, jesting and satire are fun and good sportsmanship if the intent is kind and not intended to be harsh, humiliating or defaming of character. Coin Guy and Clank, use satire and good humour to great effectiveness in the best possible manner. It is only in some of the follow-up threads by others ,that cruelty comes forth.
When you reply saying that something sucks, it neither enlightning, factual or polite as a reply to a thread or statement. Think before you respond.Some of what we wish to say on impulse, is really not worth the cyberspace to print it.
Do these thing and we can turn the Forum from a Jerry Springer free for all , to a place we all are comfortable staying as our home away from home.
All I ask is that you read this carefully and think about it. We have a most intellegent group of people on this Forum, use that intellegence wisely. The little Bear.
You are a wise woodland creature. While reading your post, I felt as though you were speaking directly to me. I will refrain from using the "suck" word in the future. Also, I will be sure to take my medication before logging onto the forum. In honor of your post, I will only make positive posts today and for as long into the future as possible. You may be "little bear", but you have a mighty way with words.
<< <i>I have very rarely hired a mechanic to work on one of my cars, but I am not a mechanic. Why would you pay someone $40-$50 an hour to do something you can do yourself? >>
55:
You are an exception for sure. I have your site bookmarked because I have an interest in Liberty Nickels. It is very fine, and if you did it yourself, you should be commended for great work.
"Doing it yourself" isn't always the answer. There are a lot of crappy websites, because people do it themselves. There are a lot of lousy brochures, because there is Microsoft Publisher (or Punisher, as it is sometimes known).
There is no subsititue for communicative experience and the technical expertise to get the message across.
It would be like me buying a $10,000 coin without consulting a numismatic professional with more expertise than I - sure I could do it - but why would I?
"I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather did, as opposed to screaming in terror like his passengers."
Yes, I wrote every bad piece of code in my website. I do agree that in many cases, it is best left to professionals. My best friend put me in charge of the engine in the car he was building. I love to build engines, but farmed out the work (only 21k). If I blow up my own engine, it is fine, but I did not want to be responsible for his.
Same would be true for most other things. I have a hard time assembling a sentence, and have no artistic talents. A brochure would be something I would not want to tackle. Designing a website is not something I enjoy. I do like coding them though.
Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
Comments
I often hear coin dealers say their time gets wasted from collectors. And I agree being in business time does indeed get wasted. But it's all in the cost of being in business.
I happen to be self employed in a service business. I'm in the yellow pages and you better believe I have calls that waste my time, and I also weed them out, in a nice way though. I have people that want bids and aren't serious, they are just curious. Not only is my time wasted just like the coin dealers with phone calls, but I drive to the place, consult with them, come back and type up a bid, either bring it back to them or fax it back. Then after they get what they want they won't even return my call when I follow up.
But am I complaining?
Now I'm not flaming dealers here, I'm just stating my opinion from another business perspective.
Camelot
I think Legend's is pretty good, but it's been a work in process over the years. Everytime something new is added, it gets pushed into a new corner. Legend's two active partners work on average 300 days a year and almost half of those days are out of town. Between traveling to shows, listing & imaging coins, talking to customers, putting coins on ebay, advertising layouts, looking for coins for me [
You should try treating them like they are stupid. That culls out a lot of deadbeats and leaves those that really want to deal with you.
Well rested persons work best!!
Oh by the way, bring those trade dollars east too so I can see them in person!!
<< <i>You should try treating them like they are stupid. >>
I been doing that for a long time. I just let them think they are the boss.
The internet has leveled the playing field between one person show and international conglomerate. Ten years ago, marketing materials were much more dollar intensive than they are now, as most marketing materials were printed on paper. Brochures were $1,000.00 per page at minimum and to produce a catalog or brochure of any significant design and content was a $20,000.00 effort, with the biggest portion of the expense being putting the ink on the paper.
Today, ANY COMPANY can look like a million bucks on the internet. Granted design and content development isn't free, and if you hire a real pro, as opposed to a hack, you can expect to pay - but nowhere near what you would pay for printed material. A few thousand dollars will go a long way in elevating the impression your company portrays.
Before creating a site - any site - get a feel for what looks good. There is a vast library of material on the internet in the form of the websites of the world's best companies. Go to websites like chrysler.com, jaguarcars.com, allstate, motorola, historychannel, generalmotors, generalelectric, etc, etc, etc. See what a really professional website looks like, feels like and how it navigates. See how it communicates to you. There is not a site on the internet that another person can't duplicate with relatively simple software and a pc.
This is not to say that you should copy someone else's design, but merely to illustrate how easy it is to LOOK LIKE a really professional outfit.
Once you know what looks good - start planning. Start with your hierarchy of what will be presented and break it into categories. Take individual elements and group them in categories. No one minds clicking through stuff, especially if you keep them informed as they go through page after page. You WANT your customer to navigate. Create an org chart of general categories and position your sub-catgeories within these.
Figure out a framework and make it consistent. Your banner - be it top or side should appear on every page to make navigating easy. Likewise the buttons. Collapsing menus are easy to develop and easy to use. When I visit a site that employs user friendly features, I want to stick around.
A good rule of thumb is to break your presentations of subjects down to individual pages which can be viewed without scrolling up, down or sideways. One page should be able to be tastefully viewed on the screen. Allow easy navigation from each page.
Use reasonable amounts of space. I have 21" monitors, however, I design nothing that can't be viewed as a single page on a 15" monitor. While I use 1200 x 1600, the majority of the browsing world doesn't use a resolution over 480 x 640.
Use a color palette and limit your use of color to complimentary colors. Limit your font and font size selections. The internet actually uses a very small amount of type faces, and it is absolutely not necessary to try and use them all. If you have a toss up between large type, and not-so-large type - go for understated. Again - visit websites of industry leaders and see how tastefully their sites are prepared. Feel free to copy a good color scheme. Avoid backgrounds - they just make it tough to read your material. Try sticking to sans serif typefaces, as they are most readable. If you really want to use serifs, use them for headings, keeping your text sans serif.
Photos do not have to be overpowering to be effective. Thumbnails which link to "supersize" windows will satisfy most collectors.
Most importantly - remember to WIIFM. Tell your visitor What's In It For Me (them). Nobody cares about what you are "proud" of, what your family or family dog looks like (sorry dog lovers - I'm being blunt for your own good). They DO care about what you have to offer, your professional credentials and your credibility.
Avoid needless animation, bells and whistles. Animated gifs have gone the way of the buggy whip. You don't need flash affects on every page. Flash is bandwidth hog and frustrates those with a dial up connection. Try fireworks rollovers - very nice, very stylish and easy on the modem.
Make contacting you easy - both via email and by listing your address, phone and fax numbers prominently.
If you are going to hire outside help - don't hire a graphics person - hire a communicator who has graphics capability, or access to it. What your site says, and how well it is organized has much more to do with its success then how snappy the graphics are. Avoid the temptation to write it yourself. You are way to close to the subject and too emotionally involved to do an effective job. Get an absolutely unbiased third party to review it for you, and TAKE THEIR ADVICE.
Update regularly. Nothing is more frustrating than an out of date site. If I see a coin I would like to purchase, I really don't want to find out it was sold two weeks ago.
If you must your own website - use good software. The Macromedia suite - dreamweaver, fireworks and flash is easy to use and there is hardly a site on the internet that cannot be made using these products. There is not a badge of honor for creating a website using html code created in notepad.
Random thoughts on how to start thinking about an effective website. If it helps, great. If I have offended someone's website, I apologize, as that was not my intent. If any of these comments cause a dealer - be they major, or the "vest pocket" variety - or a collector for that matter, to rethink a website that could be improved, then it's all good.
I just received an email with the subject being "FrontPage 4.0", which contained a virus.
Must have struck a nerve with someone.
I guess this is why God made Norton AntiVirus.
Personally, I like the layout of Laura's site but let's get the mind set off her site right now....
I have created various websites in my time using a VI, Text Editors, FrontPage Express, FrontPage 2000.. and the list is endless
Spelling/Grammer: I use a spell check as much as I can. I make a good deal of mistakes as I just type away. I have been very conscious of your, you're, your....etc. Although I could let spelling mistakes slide on my webpages, I think if you run a professional site, you really need to watch out for spelling.
Ease Of Use: I have seen too many sites in which navagating it was a real issue. Click on a link and you are taken to never never land. Although you have a back button, a website should always have a way for you to return to the previous page and should always have a link back to the main page.
Format: My biggest pet peeve is seeing a webpage that does not fit inside a window (width), other than that, I hate fancy colors on fancy backgrounds in which you can hardly read the page. I have always liked Black Background with White Text (similar to Laura) but a good many people find it hard to read and hard on the eyes. On the most part, I have switched back to a White Background and Black Text. DON'T USE COMIC SANS
Images: If your images are too big, they will take forever to load. Compress those images! (I am guilty of this from time to time as I have a cable connection and my images load pretty quickly, I don't think of the dial up users)
Counters, Music, pop-ups and Banner Ads: I do not accept any cookies unless I know the site and where that information is going to. Although these things can add spice to your site, use them within reason. The only thing Pop Up ads do is annoy people. I avoid sites that use a great deal of the above items.
A quick loading page makes everyone happy, getting lost in a website makes people unhappy.
-Dave
www.EarlyUS.com
James, the brains of our company, is the developer of the website. He did all of the design and programming. If you like it, then I will take the credit. If you have negative comments, then I will forward those comments to James.
Thanks,
Dennis
jade Coin Co.
As far as the comparison to RCNH, it all depends on the individual.
I've noticed that most of what RCNH has for sale in my area of expertise comes from major auctions where I can bid against them for the same coin. Sometimes I win, sometimes they win. Legend also buys through that route too. But additionally Legend has a much larger selection of "elitist" coins available and they seem to have the connections to come up with more interesting coins. I go where the coins are that interest me. Whether I buy them or not, depends on the coin and the price...not necessarily the plastic, website, or even the selling dealer.
roadrunner
So maybe you do have the top 5% of the coins, but in my opinion until you become more collector friendly you can continue to sell all those coins to those elite collectors and I'll find someone else to give my money to. I'm sure there are some pretty nice coins in that other 95%.
P.S. My spelling sucks so I'm not slamming you on that!
Chris
WHAT IS YOUR COIN WORTH ?
Legend Numismatics deals primarily in coins that rank in the top 5% for the grade, or coins that are of the FINEST KNOWN quality. While you may have coins that appear to be similar to the images you see on our site, we can assure you, they are not.
Taken out of context, this language might seem a bit tough. But how about reading the balance of the page to put it in context:
Many of the coins we handle were specially made and were meant to be preserved since the time of issue. The slightest fingerprint or hint of wear can knock a coins quality down by several points. It is impossible for a non educated non collector to understand what grading involves, and it is best that a professional looks at any coin you have a question on.
Isn't it obvious that this page is directed at a noncollector who has no background in coins? If a collector is offended by this, they obviously have misinterpreted.
Here's the balance of the page:
PLEASE NOTE !
WE DO NOT GIVE APPRASIALS WITHOUT SEEING THE COINS!
If you do feel you have coins of superior quality, pieces that were passed down since they came from the Mint (prior to 1954), or were assembled by a knowledgeable numismatist, we'd be more than happy to help you evaluate them or we'd love to buy them!
However, if you have "common coins", it would be best to look up your local coin dealer in the phone book and bring your coins to them.
THREE COMMON COINS/SETS WE GET QUESTIONS ON:
1943 CENT - ONLY THE COPPER PIECES ARE RARE!
To test if your coin IS copper, use a magnet. Copper will NOT stick to a magnet. Sometimes the Zinc coated ones get so ditry they don't stick either. If you feel you have found an extremely rare copper piece, we suggest you call Numisamtic Guarantee Corp. Of Sarsota Florida (a major independent grading service). They will authenticate it for a small fee.
SILVER DOLLARS.
One of the most misundertood coins non collectors find. The average piece we get called about is worth between $4-10.00. The reasons, most Morgan and Peace Dollars are not rare in the lower grades! Plus, if you can hold it in your hand, if it looks worn, or has noticeable cleaning (bad for any coin), then its only worth those numbers at the very best. There is an exception you can look for in the lower grades, Carson City Mint marks (found on Morgans only). A "CC" coin will have a small CC on the bottom of the reverse (just above the rim) at 6:00. Those coins generally are worth a little more in ALL grades.
MODERN PROOF SETS.
Generally these sets (after 1959) are worth LESS than what they were sold for by the US Mint. They are traded as a commodities on a daily basis and have clear cut buy/sell spreads. Example: as of 10/28 the buy sell spread on a 1971 PR set still in box was: $4.50/$5.25. Most dealers generally pay about 20% in back of the current published bids and then resell them for "bid".
NOTE: ANY COIN THAT IS MISSING THE DATE OR IS WORN FLAT HOLDS VERY LITTLE VALUE!
Listing of Approximate Values
CENTS
Half Cents---$10 to $50
Large Cents --- $5 to $20
Flying Eagle Cents --- $6 to $15
Indian Cents --- $.50 to $2.00
Lincoln Cents (Pre-1958) --- $.02 to $.25
2 & 3 CENTS
Two Cent Pieces --- $5 to $15
Three-Cent Silver --- $10 to $20
Three-Cent Nickel --- $5 to $15
NICKELS
Shield Nickels --- $5 to $10
Liberty or "V" Nickels --- $.50 to $2
Buffalo Nickels --- $.30 to $2 (No-date -- $ .08)
Jefferson Nickels (1942-1945) --- $.25
HALF DIMES
Early Half Dimes (1837 and Earlier) --- $80 to $125+
Seated Half Dimes --- $5 to $15
DIMES
Bust Dimes (1837 and earlier) --- $15 to $50+
Seated Dimes --- $3 to $8
Barber Dimes --- $1 to $3
Mercury Dimes --- $1 to $3
Roosevelt Dimes (Pre-1965)--- $.20 to $1
20C COINS
Twenty Cent Pieces ---- $10 to $30
QUARTERS
Bust Quarters (1838 and earlier) --- $15 to $50+
Liberty Seated Quarters ---- $3 to $15
Barber Quarters ---- $1 to $5
Standing Liberty Quarters --- $1 to $3
Washington Quarters (Pre 1965) --- $.75 to $2
HALF DOLLARS
Bust Half Dollars (1839 and earlier) --- $15 to $50+
Liberty Seated Half Dollars --- $8 to $20
Barber Half Dollars ---- $4 to $8
Liberty Walking Half Dollars --- $2 to $4
Franklin Half Dollars --- $1.50 to $2.50
Kennedy Half Dollars (1964) --- $1.50
Kennedy Half Dollars (1965-1969) --- $.75 to $1
DOLLARS
Early Dollars (Pre 1840) --- $150+ (please call)
Liberty Seated Dollars --- $30 to $75+
Morgan Dollars --- $6 to $15+
Peace Dollars --- $5 to $10
Eisenhower Dollars --- $1 to $1.50
Anthony Dollars --- $1
GOLD
Gold coins---Call - without seeing a coin it is impossible to judge its value.
UNCIRCULATED coins are worth more than the prices listed, but must be seen to be valued. Sorry, we can not give approximations over the phone
So there you have it - laid out in its entirety and in context. Doesn't seem so bad.
BTW - since Legend doesn't have a shopping cart system on the website: it was a nice story, but it doesn't hold water.
Reading the whole thing does shed a different light on the subject, but I still feel that the comments are a bit snobish. For example, the part about taking your "common coins" to your local dealer. That also seems like bad business to me.
Those aren't buy prices. Those are approximate values for the education of the noncollector. That is what this whole section of the website is supposed to be - a free education for someone who has no clue and doesn't know where to look. Snobbish - or direct and to the point?
<< <i>SarasotaFrank, it's not that I like you or anything, >>
thanks Ed! I'll certainly sleep better tonite!
PLONK
Personally, I think this entire thread should be PLONK'ed -- including Sir Francis of Sarasota the Master Critic and Whiner.
It's become a sad day that we'd decide upon a dealership based on their web site aesthetic appeal and the verbal quality of the dealers. Personally, I think fair pricing, inventory quality, numismatic and industry knowledge, integrity and reliability are far more important.
I've often thought that the Legend web site could be better, that Laura is a lousy writer and speller, and that she can also be a bit crotchety at times. So what? I'm asking her to be my web designer, to write for me, or even to marry me.
And, to those who think that SF's attempt at disguising the object of his critique was a good one ... think again. I knew in the first couple seconds whose site SF quoted. And, I'll bet that many of us here would have been easily able to determine that as well.
This really is a funny thread... Imagine dissing a rare coin dealer simpy because you don't like the typos is bizarre...
PLONK.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
I once referenced a Legend article, and it resulted in a lot of ridiculous flaming. (Sorry, Laura, for not asking in advance!)
If you read something that bothers you quite a bit, then why not contact the author first for a clarification before getting all kooky and taking it public?
Remember: do unto others what you want others to do unto you. Remember the Golden Rule.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
The primary intent of my post was to ask the question as to why dealers, who can realize the largest volume of business via the internet take so little care in tending to their sites. After all, the internet gives someone working out of a spare bedroom a forum equal to the industry leaders - if they have the service and products to compete on equal footing.
The fact that dealers pay so little attention to their image is an interesting question - interesting to me - and as it turns out, interesting to many others.
On all forums I frequent, you seem to be a knowledgeable and level headed person - why reduce your stature with name calling - it doesn't suit you.
Because I am thoroughly frustrated by the voluminous vitriolic back-n-forth around here lately. I apologize for calling you a whiner (or whatever it was exactly). When I saw Lava's post calling Laura a mule/horse-like animal that's commonly used as a negative metaphor for a human body part -- that's when I lost it.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
You try getting DOZENS of calls all day on your toll free line with people who insist they have the same coin as you. It not only costs you money, but we've had MANY times when we are on the phone with a customer and had to get off because some guy on the other end wants to know the best price on our coin so he can offer us his uncertified widget-thats usually worth $4.
And as far as our offering the top 5% for the grade, yeah, we really do try. But not every coin does make that rank. We understand we can't please all the people all the time with how we say things. Call me elitest, but I will always give my customers the best service, coins, and deals possible. I'm not asking anyone here for their biz!
I'm off to Baltimore. Flame away!
JUST SAY NO TO WANNABES! They lurk and prey on unwitting collectors in chatrooms!
As a veteran IT person I can say that many people try to do it themselves. Unfortunalty, the charges that they may call excessive are for the skills I have built over years and years. Sometimes, this even includes things like being able to spell and smarts enough to know that I might mistype something, and therefore, spellchecking.
I really wish that there was a state licensing body for tis work. I don't do my own books I hire an accountant, I don't defend myself I hire a lawyer. When you need IT work (Websites, networking, databases, etc.) you need to hire a professional IT person. Get three references from them, follow up, look at thier past work (If they don't have any this is a big clue that they are amatures). Don't rely of the person being a MCSE, MCDBA, whatever, because of two reasons:
A. Not every problems needs Microsoft.
B. Not every certified person really knows what thier doing. Many study thier way to passing the test. Hands on experience is what is needed.
End result: You get what you pay for. Plain and Simple
Enjoy
First Place Winner of the 2005 Rampage design contest!
If legend wants to become a volume dealer, then they will need to re-think their website strategy. If they want to continue to offer the type of coins they do now, they do not need to change anything. Would you buy a ferrari from an online dealer only because they have a "great website"?
I have very rarely hired a mechanic to work on one of my cars, but I am not a mechanic. Why would you pay someone $40-$50 an hour to do something you can do yourself?
<< <i>I'm sorry that I got into this thread so late, but I have to agree with SarasotaFrank. I was on your site last week Laura. I had a list and was going to fill it from you. I felt you were one of the good guys when you stood up for all of us with HRH. I was looking through your inventory and had picked out 3 coins or about $7K if you want dollar figures and then I saw that statement basicly stating that your coins were better than anything I've got. Well Laura that may be good business and I understand what your trying to say, but I felt it was offensive towards me and my collection. So to make a long story short I emptied my shopping cart and left in disgust.
C Thomas,
Sorry, but I just don't belive you. If you really wanted those "$ 7000.00" worth of coins, you would not have let that stop you. Also, Legend does not have a "shopping cart" feature on their site.
Whenever we descend to the level of name calling and excessive harshness
we merely highlight our shortcomings and inadequacies. A Forum should not
be used as a dumping ground for the venom and spite we build up in our normal
daily activities. Such dumping of intense and negetive feelings and thoughs, while
entertaining to some, are what can often make this Forum a blood sport in stead
of a pleasent harbour of relaxation and fun.We all lose our cool at some time, but to do
it on a continuing bases is truly deplorable. Those indeviduals who egg on such activities
and continually pour gasoline on the fire are perhaps the most despicable of culprits.
They substitute rashness and aggressiveness for reason and calm resolve. If we are truly an
extended family and I believe we are, then there are rules of the home that should be observed.
Wipe the dirt of ones shoes before you enter the Forum.
Delay your reponse when you are extremely angry.
If you feel that your response is over the top, dont send it, delete it.
If a person is an idiot, they already know that in their hear, you dont
have to continue to remind them.
If you say or show a picture that ridicules another,think how you would feel before
you put it on the Forum. Are a few laughs at someone elses expense truly worth
the pain it will cause that person.
Humour, jesting and satire are fun and good sportsmanship if the intent is kind and
not intended to be harsh, humiliating or defaming of character. Coin Guy and Clank,
use satire and good humour to great effectiveness in the best possible manner.
It is only in some of the follow-up threads by others ,that cruelty comes forth.
When you reply saying that something sucks, it neither enlightning, factual or polite
as a reply to a thread or statement. Think before you respond.Some of what we wish to say on impulse,
is really not worth the cyberspace to print it.
Do these thing and we can turn the Forum from a Jerry Springer free for all , to a place we all
are comfortable staying as our home away from home.
All I ask is that you read this carefully and think about it. We have a most intellegent group
of people on this Forum, use that intellegence wisely. The little Bear.
Camelot
You are a wise woodland creature. While reading your post, I felt as though you were speaking directly to me. I will refrain from using the "suck" word in the future. Also, I will be sure to take my medication before logging onto the forum. In honor of your post, I will only make positive posts today and for as long into the future as possible. You may be "little bear", but you have a mighty way with words.
NumisEd
<< <i>I have very rarely hired a mechanic to work on one of my cars, but I am not a mechanic. Why would you pay someone $40-$50 an hour to do something you can do yourself? >>
55:
You are an exception for sure. I have your site bookmarked because I have an interest in Liberty Nickels. It is very fine, and if you did it yourself, you should be commended for great work.
"Doing it yourself" isn't always the answer. There are a lot of crappy websites, because people do it themselves. There are a lot of lousy brochures, because there is Microsoft Publisher (or Punisher, as it is sometimes known).
There is no subsititue for communicative experience and the technical expertise to get the message across.
It would be like me buying a $10,000 coin without consulting a numismatic professional with more expertise than I - sure I could do it - but why would I?
Todd
800.954.0270
Same would be true for most other things. I have a hard time assembling a sentence, and have no artistic talents. A brochure would be something I would not want to tackle. Designing a website is not something I enjoy. I do like coding them though.