psa set registry forum vs sgc
Wayne8348
Posts: 769 ✭
I just make my first trip to the sgc forum today and I have to admit I was shocked. I found so many posts just bashing psa - and not only that but bashing some of the most respected members of this board. What is the point of this? I also noticed that several of the folks from this board regularly post over there as well. I think SGC has a very good company and the best holder in the business (just my opinion), but the discussion board over there seems bent on running down psa and members of this forum. We seem to run about 90% of our posts are very positive and informative. I noticed the bobs, aconte, bkah, and some others regularly posting over there. Why is so much energy being spent running down psa? I'm just curious.
Wayne
Wayne
1955 Bowman Football
0
Comments
Hey brian - when did you become down on psa? I always thought you were a psa supporter. Just curious.
Wayne
thebobs post
I think SGC has a fine product as well . Unfortunately Michael's vendetta against PSA has hurt that company. The constant whining by Wentz is your lasting impression of SGC
The other thing i really noticed about both boards is how many people talk a different game depending on which board they are on. Many of the guys you listed Wayne are great examples of this
Groucho Marx
I agree - my first impression of the boards was mostly of Michael Wentz's posts and I was just surprised at how much time and energy he puts into bashing psa. I can't imagine that being productive for sgc. Also, I wasn't trying to be critical of anybody posting both places. I just noticed names I recognized and probably shouldn't have listed them. Those guys have in my opinion been great contributors to this forum.
Wayne
I've never pulled any punches. This is a Psa board and I respect it as such. However,
if you question my posts or if you think I have not been clear enough I can. However,
out of respect for many of the good guys who collect Psa I usually have not been too
vocal. But I've always been clear. You may not of noticed if you have not been here
often.
So....
My preference is Sgc. I believe they are the grading company of choice. It is my opinion
that they grade on a more accurate and consistent basis. I prefer their holders. I believe
that while their product does not sell as well as Psa, that Sgc is better for my needs.
It is also my opinion that they offer a superior product. I have nothing against Psa.
I do collect some cards in Psa holders including my 53 Red man set, 51 bowman Eagles,
and various Phillies and Eagles. It is also my opinion that the Psa product has deteriotated
NOT in terms of price but of quality. Again this is only my opinion and you should continue
to collect what makes you happy. If it is your perrogative to disagree and ridicule my choices
like Koby, PC, and others. That's fine.
I've been very vocal in my support for Sgc since the Ft. Wash show. I have a number of
reasons for this. I can not recall where I've been openly very anti-Psa on the boards. But I
guess you can not be for Sgc and for Psa. That's fine too. I'll do my best.
And if Psa or CU prefers I do not post on these boards, they can let me know and I will
leave. But I make no excuses. I have one id on all the boards as well as ebay. Most people
know who I am. And if you prefer I leave these boards... guess what I'm here until those that
run it want me gone... and until then I won't be gone...
Deal with it!
aconte
Frankly I prefer that you stick around here. You are entitled to your opinions, and remarkably enough, we all have them. I don't have a problem with anyone having a contrarian stance to mine, providing they state their case in an intelligent manner. You have never come on these boards spouting any vicious attacks against PSA or any of the members on the board. To the contrary, you freely share your knowledge with the members and contribute more to these boards than many so called "loyalists".
TheBobs....
Im interested to hear what you meant by your post on the SGC boards....
Also...an open question to several of the CU members going over to the SGC boards.
a.) Do you collect SGC cards?
b.) Do you collect PSA cards?
c.) all of the above
d.) none of the above (i just really, really like to post on message boards)
John
I thought the best thing to do for those who just recently started reading the Sgc board
that I state where I stood and my collecting choices. I've been on both boards for quite
some time. Frankly, if I was reading that board I would of asked the same questions.
And I know... it's Paul not Frankly!
aconte
Right now the answer is c. I'm leaning towards going to a. And if I sell some day it could
become b right before it becomes d.
aconte
There are bigots on both boards, and it is not hard to identify them. There are also thoughtful, intelligent posters on both boards and, again, it's not hard to identify them.
I will post here what I posted on the SGC board last night in response to my friend and insightful collector, aconte -- a similar theme to dgf's bus driver thread over here.
*****
aconte,
I agree with you. It is very hard for me to understand the venom that sometimes surfaces between collectors of the various grading companies. In my book, SGC, PSA and GAI are all legit outfits and should be commended for their efforts. They are all the grading "good guys" and we should (collectively) focus our venom on the fly-by-night operations.
Scott
*****
I don't understand why there is so much time and energy spent bashing each other on who we choose to have our cards slabbed by.
Enjoy your collection,
Scott
edited because I can't spell
Great post - I don't think it could have been said any better.
John,
I just collect psa. It wouldn't be feasible to work on a 1965 or 1974 baseball set in sgc. Just about every common would be a pop 0 or 1. That's not a slam against sgc, it's just that they have very little market presence in these sets.
Wayne
Could we make this like a penalty on a hockey goalie and ask someone else to leave in your place. We could have a poll and make the decision fair.
John
Let me say this I respect you and your collecting choices for the following reasons.
A) You are collecting for the sake of collecting
C) You are submitting to SGC because you feel it is for the right reasons better more consisting grading , better holder etc.
I dont think in my original post i really said any negative about any of the above.
My point was and you confirmed it was that there is more negativity in your posts on SGC than CU. You confirmed this with ,"
out of respect for many of the good guys who collect Psa I usually have not been too voca" Fair enough works for me that is a great response.
I collect both SGC and PSA cards . The ratio being 98 % PSA 2 % SGC . I see no reason to slander either of them . I really think both holders are ugly and need upgrading . But hey you know what im old school i collect the cards not the holders
Always looking for 1957 Topps BB in PSA 9!
I agree with Frank who agreed with John who agreed with Paul who agreed with somebody,I think.
Vic
It really is rediculous for people to form camps like they have. But there is one main reason(person) for it, and we all know what (who) it is.
Truly a shame. When I started collecting graded cards, I collected both PSA and SGC, with even a few Becketts. The majority were PSA, because that it where most of the vintage commons are. I switched to all PSA for 3 reasons: 1) the abundance of cards 2) the Set Registry, and 3)most importantly was MW and his constant PSA bashing. It makes me cringe at the thought of buying SGC, in spite of there solid reputation and nice holders.
Now that prices appreciate better in PSA holders, that is another solid reason to own them.
By math math, that works out to be ac/dc
uh oh
I use PSA for all my mainstream stuff (which is more and more).
I like SGC for the obscure stuff and regionals (partly because Derek had an open door policy and would at times use some subjectivity on issues like Stahl-meyer).
I think both companies are excellent at what they do, and I tell them that just as often as I complain, which is often, as is well documented.
Long live the King.....and Queen
Heck,............long live Wentz, PC and the SGC bashers too
Caramels...where's my saturday night special of the girl next door ??
I have used both companies in the past. I recently started disagreeing with a certain Mr. Wentz openly on the SGC boards simply trying to post the other side to his idiotic posts.
Today I got 3 PMs for the moderator lecturing me about my recent posts.
I polietly emailed him back and agreed to stop "picking on Mr. Wentz" as I was basically asked to do. I also told the moderator that I would refrain from using there service as long as they were associated with the individual named above.
Too funny, he sure must have the top people at SGC snowed. I used to somewhat think that SGC had more integrity than any other company, but I guess that pretty much shoots that idea down.
Braves
That's my
JEB.
Although I like to have all of my cards in PSA slabs, I don't have anything against the other major grading companies. The SGC boards are more like the bash PSA (and GAI) boards. Although SGC will be criticized on these boards, it is not nearly like what it is said on the SGC boards about PSA.
Both PSA and this forum have achieved critical mass, while the others have not.
If I could collect an all-SGC vintage set, I might do it, but back when I bought everything I found that almost everything I bought was in a PSA slab. Eventually I standardized, rather than having 150 PSA-graded cards and 10 that weren't.
I'd post on the SGC board if there were discussions there that are as good as the ones here, but it looks like there are big time gaps between good posts there.
bruce
Website: http://www.brucemo.com
Email: brucemo@seanet.com
I am genuinely sorry that I ever biched and moaned about who was better--SGC or GAI or PSA. Today, it makes me a hypocrite when I say all of the attacks against these companies are growing so tiresome it boggles the mind. People I respect and like in this hobby I am now embarrassed for. They humiliate themselves daily with disparaging remarks about grading companies often inflammatory with little or no evidence to support their claims. If you like the idea of third-party authentication you have to realize that these three companies do a fine job most of the time. They are also all streaky and succeptible to human errors and shifting standards. I have purchased grossly overgraded cards in SGC holders as well as PSA. I've had "graders of death" on BOTH coasts. I continue to have my cards graded, however. I'm not sure if it's a habit now or a game or an investment...but I still ship 'em every month or so. Bottom line-- I enjoy it.
I think the only thing more annoying than the PSA kool-aid drinkers--we ALL know who they are-- are the cult-like SGC zealots of late that, frankly, turned me off to SGC just about the time I was getting on board. Basically, we've got about a dozen or so guys in each camp that won't shut up until the other guys say "uncle". Why is it so important to both camps who the other sends their cards to anyway? I'd be happy to give fair assessments of each company publicly, but I'm not sure you guys care about fair assessments. It seems you need to be told you're right. Here goes...
PSA hires blind guys to grade and they prompted Craig and the WIWAG guys to behave like scum & cards in PSA holders cannot be trusted.
SGC has no high-profile or qualified graders left and everyone with any green-labeled sportscards should abandon the sinking ship immediately.
GAI continues to overgrade cards for their "good 'ol boy network" and turnaround times are into the months instead of days.
None of these statements are based on any actual facts of course, I just thought I'd admit that your bus driver is THE BEST...EVER!!!
At this point I would like to suggest some female companionship or perhaps TV Land for anyone who posts between 2 am and 6 am...
Seems appropriate again tonight. Maybe I'll just post it every night before I log off.
"I like them all. I agree, this is ridiculous. No TV Land or female companionship tonight. I'm just going to go to sleep now. Hopefully 3rd party grading will still be an option when I wake up tomorrow.
Good night everyone.
JEB. "
Michael - While your anti-PSA crusade has always seemed rather humorously neurotic,
now I fear your obsession may have developed into a full blown psychosis.
It may be time, for those that truely love you, to seek out some professional help for you.
In all seriousness Michael, here's hoping that your return to 'the real world' is swift ...
"How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
MW is the kind of guy that if you disagree with and push him, he will not push back - he will drop a weapon of mass-destruction on you. That's the point! IF you question him, he will come after you with all the venom a terrorist could muster. That’s why people are so black-and-white with Wentz. People who are his “followers” will not question anything he does much like the al-Queda members don’t question and willing support Bin Laden – and in Bin Laden or Wentz mind – he is correct and speaks the truth by his holy lord. The rest of the world looks at him as if he has gone off the deep end and realize that his in way to deep!
I, for one, am deeply offended by anyone who would post a comment with Wentz and Bin Laden in the same sentence.
glad2beback, I think you owe an apology to Osama Bin Laden.
Here are some of my hobby predictions for the coming year:
(1) PSA will no longer be part of Collectors Universe by the end of the year. It will either be dissolved or it will be sold to a group of investors and major changes will be made in its operation.
(2) GAI will not exist in its current form past the end of the year. Budget constraints and the lack of investors will lead to its disappearance from the hobby.
(3) SGC will continue to gain marketshare and 12 months from now, will be the largest grader of vintage sports cards
That's a pretty odd prediction considering that it appears that SGC was just in the midst of a possible sell out to GAI.
Toppsgun - now that was funny!
Wayne
(1) SGC will sever all ties with BMW sportscards, after realizing how damaging they are to SGC's ability to grow their market share.
(2) Since they will be effectively out with three of the four largest grading companies, BMW sportscards will be forced to take their business to SCD or Beckett or Pro (now that's funny!). Can you imagine them hyping their tripe in a BGGS holder?
Question: How many major show promoters have banned BMW from setting up? Anybody know?
Question: How many major show promoters have banned BMW from setting up? Anybody know?
When I spoke with Mike last, they were only doing the National.
Regards,
Alan
...and BMW will only be selling SGC boxing cards at the national...
95% of my slabbed collection resides in PSA holders. I visit the SGC boards for two reasons --
a. I collect Red Man cards. Some of the best Red Man collectors prefer SGC. These same collectors have great knowledge about grading raw, spotting altered cards, etc...
b. I have been VERY frustrated by PSA's handling of the WIWAG situation. As a businessman I am amazed. As a PSA customer I am gravely disappointed.
I have voiced multiple messages about point B here at CU (I am certainly not the only one here either that has been reasonable, level headed AND critical of PSA's decisions recently -- Zardoz, BOTN that I can immediately think). They are typically ignored, brushed aside, or end up in PM discussions.
I think it is VERY important to filter through the propaganda and junk on any message board. I think it is VERY important to maintain a level of objectivity when evaluating information.
I don't think you will find any inconsistency in my posts at CU or SGC.
There are good guys that collect PSA. There are good guys that collect SGC. There are good cards in PSA slabs. There are good cards in SGC slabs. There are PSA zealots. There are SGC zealots.
Its a shame we can't talk about cards and collecting instead of making this into an East Coast/West Coast gansta rap war...
Basilone,
I'd say "I collect Red Man cards. Great Red Man cards are found in PSA and SGC holders. Therefore, I need to stay in the loop with people that collect PSA, SGC, and PSA/SGC." The universe of Red Man cards is relatively small.
CU turns its lonely eyes to you
What's the you say, Mrs Robinson
Vargha bucks have left and gone away?
hey hey hey
hey hey hey
<< <i>I, for one, am deeply offended by anyone who would post a comment with Wentz and Bin Laden in the same sentence.
glad2beback, I think you owe an apology to Osama Bin Laden. >>
TOPPSGUN,
This is the best post I have read in a log time.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Braves
John
I hope you didn't take it as a criticism when I mentioned that you post both places. That's fine. My main point was that I couldn't believe the negativity on that board. Now that I have read throught the SGC board more I have found that it mainly comes from 1 person. I had never even visited that board before yesterday.
<< <i>Its a shame we can't talk about cards and collecting instead of making this into an East Coast/West Coast gansta rap war... >>
I think that we do a whole lot of that on the cu board. Perhaps I was off base in starting this thread but I have never been critical of SGC or anyone who collects SGC. In fact, competition helps everyone. Would PSA be running any specials if it wasn't for strong competition? I don't know Michael Wentz or anything about him other than he obviously has a grudge against psa. If you have a problem with my post then email or call me and we can resolve it. Thanks,
Wayne
Absolutely no problems. I had no worries about your post or where you were coming from at all.
Folks like you, Jay, Zardoz, MCastaldi, Aconte, Basilone among others are the reason I visit the boards. The fact most of us use PSA is secondary to me.
Brian
CU turns its lonely eyes to you
What's the you say, Mrs Robinson
Vargha bucks have left and gone away?
hey hey hey
hey hey hey
I see where you are coming from in regards to connecting with fellow RedMan collectors.
Best of luck with your collecting,
John
I'm not sure who posted it but someone said they will never do business with SGC while MW is their poster boy - amen brother!
I happened onto that segment that they had written about you and it made me so mad. I can just imagine how you must have felt about it. I wasn't going to bring it up but since you did already, anybody that knows you would know that there isn't any truth to it at all. Nobody could be more straight up and honest than you are. That in itself really soured me on the sgc boards.
Wayne
Bottom line is both companies (PSA and SGC) are viable options to getting your cards graded. Both offer great service and value. To choose one company over another because of who posts on the message boards doesn't make sense either. We are all intelligent collectors and dealers on these forums, but mostly we are guests here. As guests we should all treat each others opinions with respect and keep the attacks and name calling for the "schoolyard".
Hey, FabFrank, you wanna take it out to the playground after school?
I do tend to see alot of PSA bashing on the other boards. Some of what I've see written with little or no supporting evidence:
PSA will be out of business shortly
PSA grades trimmed cards
PSA gives backdoor deals to preferred dealers
PSA knew about the WIWAG issue and tried to cover it up
The WIWAG issue is only the tip of the iceburg. When the truth is exposed, people will be shocked.
PSA employees may have been involved with WIWAG and reholdering cards
PSA switches cards
PSA graders are inexperienced and not up to par with competition
PSA is rapidly losing market share as people panic about the demise of PSA and the value of their product and look for fair and accurate grading companies
I think the general consensus from PSA collectors on this forum is that SGC is a legitimate competitor who is capable of providing a service on par with PSA and we welcome the healthy competition. This has been stated many times on here by many people. I think what brings on the harsh rhetoric is when people make statements like the ones highlighted above trying to undermine the integrity of the PSA name. In the end, I think it does more harm to SGC than good. If everyone spend their energy focusing solely on the virtues of their brand of choice, it would have a more positive effect on newcomers instead of saying "grade with my favorite company because the other company sucks".
JEB.
Now if you go over to the SGC forum you see a post by MW putting his spin on the latest news about Collector's Universe, a thread predicting that PSA and GAI are going to be out of business in a year, a thread (53 post long) asking if GAI is in financial trouble, a thread 185 posts long about the PSA "Scandal". Almost every post is SGC vs. PSA or GAI. If its not bashing PSA or SGC its saying how great SGC is and so much better then PSA or GAI. The only info on the SGC boards is the latest updates on the war between SGC and PSA/GAI. On the boards over here all sots of thing are discussed, cards sets, specific cards, current events in sports. You can't compare the two forums, if you want to talk about cards you post here, if you want to get involved in the stupid SGC vs. PSA debate you post on the SGC boards.