1978 Vending Box PSA grade experiment - Not encouraging

diamantedude

Hi,
I just bought a 1978 Topps Vending Box straight from the Baseball Card Kid. I took 8 cards straight from the box into a soft sleeve and then a card saver 1 and submitted to PSA. I got my results today: four PSA 7's, 3 PSA 8's, and one 9OC. What a bummer. How does one explain the fact that cards STRAIGHT from an UNOPENED VENDING BOX got such terrible ratings. Any people out there do anything special on their card submissions. I have a few 1978 PSA 9's and I mailed out 8 cards that I thought for sure looked like the quality of those PSA 9's.

Wabittwax

Sometimes vending is tough, especially for what you have to pay for a box. If you picked the best cards out of the box, it definately sounds like you caught the grader of death because you should have done better than that.

waittilitstartstosmell

Did you look at the corners under 10 X magnification and measure the cards for centering? If you don't look at the card like a grader might, how do you know what to expect? Just because the cards are in a vending box, doesn't mean the cards all have mint corners.

diamantedude

When I get them mailed to me, I'll check them out. I'm almost positive that some of the PSA 9's I had are WORSE than the ones I submitted. I'll give PSA the benefit of the doubt, but whoever said that maybe PSA has made "deals" with major companies now has my vote. I'm tempted to carefully break open one of my PSA 9's and submit them with my next batch of 1978's and see what I get.

Wabittwax

Yeah, PSA really needs to fire that grader. I've caught him a few times and it's really discouraging. Especially when you catch him on a 100+ card submission. Talk about throwing away $600. I've done that a few times.

zardoz51

Since when has opening a vending box been an assurance of getting 8's and 9's????????

Would you like some tales of horror?

How about a 1971 vending box where every card had more snow than a Dr. Zhivago movie. Another box from 75 where 90% of the cards were so horribly miscut that they showed tops and bottoms of the adjoining cards from the sheet.


Be grateful that you got a few 8's. Go through the rest of the box carefully and pick out the best, then go through them again.

pc

vending boxes come from vending cases.
if you buy one vending box chances are
the seller is smarter than the buyer.
open a vending case,then open one box.
let's presume it to be a 1985 topps
vending.look at the clemens rookie-
well centered.look at the mcgwire-o/c.
dont even bother opening the other 23
vending boxes because chances are extremely
great the other boxes will have mcgwire
cards with almost identical centering.

downgoesfrazier

Zardoz,
Here's one for laughs...I broke a '77 Wax box a year ago and pulled a whopping 6 worthwhile cards (one was a dupe!). At 900 a throw for wax boxes (the box I opened was purchased years ago at a fraction of that so it wasn't as depressing) that's roughly 150 bones per coaster...yeah, baby! I've also broke vending that contains nearly 1000 cards per 500 ct. box...you know, you get half of Chip Lang and half of Ed Armbrister on the same card...more bang for your buck

Diamantedude,
I don't doubt your disappointment but 7's denote wear or edge-to-corner curls common to vending. Further, a razor sharp card that's near perfect in every way but centered 3:1 either way typically earns you a 9Q or 7NQ. Since you got the 9Q you obviously didn't specify "no qualifiers" so we're looking at corner touches. Try to learn from it and move on.

PC,
Great point. Absolutely true. Knowing your source and, if possible, you case #'s really helps.

pc

even the source can be a problem.
the baseball card kid buys from other
sellers.if someone in arizona sends him
a case of cards that were stored in their garage
well you can bet your bottom dollar those
cards will be chipped,flaked and unable to
receive a worhty grade when examined under 10x.

downgoesfrazier

I said "Know" your source. Mine won't sell me such an item. It pays to take care of the dealers who help you out.

brucemo

I can't believe that people still expect to get mint cards from packs and other "unopened" sources. The cards often have corner and edge problems, as well as variable centering.

You *have* to go through and pick the best ones. If you ever bank on having more than 5% 9 candidates, you are taking a big risk.

bruce

BillBob

I just received my cards back from PSA today from my 1975 mini wax pack. The cards all looked good to me (better than many 9s I have seen) and centering was measured before sending in. I asked for no qualifiers and got back 3 8s, 2 8 STs and 1 8 OC. I guess ST and OC are not considered qualifiers anymore at PSA (LOL). The OC was OC for an 8 but I would have rather had the 7.

Stump

I also got QUALIFIERS back on a NO QUALIFIER NO QUALIFIER NO QUALIFIER invoice. I submitted 675 cards and you would think writing it in big black letters accross the top of every page. Oh and also out of the 675 cards 42 were pulled from vending boxes. Thats right 3 boxes. Thats 1500 cards. A 1977,1976 and a 1975. Thats all I could find that I thought would grade 8 or better. My results
1975 28 cards 22 8's 2 7's and 4 8PD's
1976 14 crads 8 8's and 6 9's
1977 could not find a card worthy

My vending days are OVERRRRRRR

Dave

jaxxr

I have some 78s from a rack-pak case bought a long time ago, probably no sample study by the seller. Anyway I have submitted about 75 of the best, still have a few hundred to go thru, and got 4 gem 10s, around 50 9s, around 15 8s and about 10 7s. Decent results but of course there were over 2000 cards I felt were not worthy of a shot at a 9. No matter how complete and carefull I try to be , I realize it's hard to be totally objective when evaluating my cards for submission.

Unopened, no matter how un-studied or unhandled they may be, is no sure thing. Buy a box of 2003 or similar Topps, some will be OC some corners will be rough, Etc. I believe we may underestimate the real diffuculty and corresponding value of high grade cards from 1980 and before.

Mefer

To me. the thrill of the chase is 98% of the fun. I too have been there, done that, and bought the t-shirt on terrible vending results. It can be expensive but by now, I would rather drop three bills on a 78 vending box than three bills on a 2003 box of cards. You never know when you might get lucky; case in point, I pulled a 76 Tom Seaver from a vending box, got a 9, and sold it for $450.00. That closed to paid for my two 76 vending boxes I had purchased up to that point (the boxes were purchased a couple of years ago). However, I did get a number of badly miscut cards too. Again, to me the chase is 98% of the fun and memories flow back opening late 70s material as if I were a kid again.

BugOnTheRug

Mefer,

I totally agree about the 'thrill of the chase' in opening older vending, wax, etc. for those few 'gems'. But the price vs. rewards is the BIG gamble, and I think the vast majority of the time the house wins.

However, there is more than one way to 'chase', and I find it just as rewarding. Some examples:

- finding key cards you need using the help of people from this board.
- going to shows, finding what you want/need, and working a real good deal.
- being high bidder on cards/sets/etc that you KNOW you really made out on.

In doing so, you control the situation as opposed to the luck of the draw. Sure, bad choices can be made and I have done that at times. However, for me, the good choices far outway the bad, which makes watching the Andy Griffith Show even more enjoyable than it already is.

BOTR

chrisrenaud

I enjoy doing everything that bug on the rug stated in the last post but I also enjoy opening older vintage product even though it is a gamble - I have found better luck in 78 with an unopened rack case than vending (I bought a 78 vending case from Mark Murphy) because the corners were much much better than in the vending case (although I did get a lot of Rose and Schmidt 9's from the vending). I presume this is because the cellophane wrapping in rack cases holds the cards much better and much less susceptible to damage over time than in a vending case.

paigowmichael

I bought a '77 vending box and an '85 vending box about a month ago.

From the '85 I pulled 3 cards that were worth grading (more or less). One McGwire, one Clemens, and one Puckett. The McGwire I knew was an 8 at best because there was a small touch on the lower corner. Thought the other two might make 9s. Results: McGwire did come back with an 8, Clemens came back 8 as well, and the Puckett came back a 9. Overall, the grading came back about right I'd guess. Honestly, I don't inspect them that well. I don't use more than 2x magnification. I rely on being VERY conservative and NEVER expecting anything better than an 8. My usual method is, "It looks like it might be a nine, so I'll expect an eight." The one thing I always do is measure the centering. If it's not close to 65/35 - and I mean real close - I don't send it in.

I also got another McGwire and another Clemens from the box that I didn't submit. A lot of small corner dings. You never know how much that box has been jostled around and the cards will show it.

On to the '77 box. After going through the box carefully, I pulled 97 out to send in. Found a lot with very significant edge wear. And, of course, the usual centering issues. I haven't sent these in yet. It will be interesting to see the results. Hopefully I'll get a few nines for my trouble. I'd be happy with 85% 8s, 10% 7s, and 5% 9s. I'll be bouncing off the ceiling if I luck into a ten. That Enos Cabell looks real nice....knock on wood. So does that Yaz....knock on wood twice.

At the very least, I'm getting some serious entertainment out of it. I'm probably more excited about these '77s than the ones I got when my Dad brought home a wax box for me when I was 10. I chewed a lot of gum that week.

What was my point? Oh yeah. What I think I've learned from these boxes is that you'll find a few gems if you look close, but there will be a lot more "junk" than "gold" in them. If I get reasonable results on my "big" submission, I'll definitely buy another box or two before I finish the set.

Happy hunting all.

diamantedude

Thanks for all the input. I'm placing a "new" thread with a new question but based on the same subject

downgoesfrazier

paigow,
Cabell is a sweet-lookin' card in '77. I'm always looking for the best so keep me in mind. Who'd you buy the vending from? 97 cards is A LOT to pull from a 500ct. box from 1977. My set is Montgomery Collection. I still need to punch in 40 more cards, but that's basically where I'm at. If you've got any numbers that can help, PLEASE email me...
maysfan24@yahoo.com

mikeschmidt

Opening vintage vending/rack/wax/cello, etc. is best compared to the lottery. At current market prices, in the long-term you will always come out behind. You may occassionally hit the jackpot (think of the 1952 Topps Andy Pafko PSA 10 that came from a wax pack -- or those HOF PSA 10 GEMS that were auctioned off last year...). But, overall, you need to pre-screen your submissions and not hope for great results.

Opening vintage can be a ton of fun -- and that is a lot of the "value" you get out of such an edeavour. Otherwise, it may just be easier to purchase the already-graded examples.

When Topps and other companies produced their cards 20, 30, or 50 years ago, they did not do it with the current collector in mind. If kids got star cards, regardless of condition, the company fulfilled its goal. At the end of the day, remember that a PSA 8 is still an awfully nice card -- often appearing MINT or better at first glance.

Sometimes the result is not the end cards, but the journey getting there. I love purchasing oddball vintage boxes and looking for Schmidt cards. Who would think that a $10-$20 investment can be so much fun? If the Schmidt cards come back 9's -- I came out ahead. If I get 8's, I still had a lot of fun and enjoyed the overall experience. What can beat that?

As for results -- sometimes you can be surprised, too. I've had some surprisingly good results opening up 1970s OPC lately. Just a pack or two here or there, but considering how those cards were generally cut, etc., it is quite surprising how sometimes you can get lucky!

Treetop

I’ve been wanting to spend some $$$ on some mid seventies vending. So I bought an 1981 vending box….it refreshed my memoir on why I shouldn’t shell out $$$ for mid seventies vending. The 1981 box was tossed right in the trash. Off-centered, dinged corners, the whole nine yards. I’ll save my money for better things.

Virtualizard

<< <i>I’ve been wanting to spend some $$$ on some mid seventies vending. So I bought an 1981 vending box….it refreshed my memoir on why I shouldn’t shell out $$$ for mid seventies vending. The 1981 box was tossed right in the trash. Off-centered, dinged corners, the whole nine yards. I’ll save my money for better things. >>



Maybe if you had bought something other than an '81 vending box (say a '76 vending box), you might have pulled some nice mid '70s cards.

JEB.

MickeyC

<< <i>The 1981 box was tossed right in the trash. Off-centered, dinged corners, the whole nine yards. I’ll save my money for better things. >>



If anyone is in the same situation, ie stuck with off center cards you think won't grade an 8, 9, or 10, from vending boxes from any years before 1985, PLEASE EMAIL ME!!!!!

I'll take 'em! I can use them for raw sets.

Thanks!

Mark

paigowmichael

Just a follow up.

I finally sent in 50 of my '77s. After taking a second look at the 97 I decided a couple dozen were really too iffy to send - leaving me with only 74 candidates. I pulled what I thought were the best 50 and sent those. Got the results this morning. No tens unfortunately, but did pull 20 nines which I was quite happy with. Also 27 eights, which was my basic expectation. Had one seven (L/R centering probably kept this one from an eight but I think it's still the highest graded example - according to the Pop Report the only other submission was a 5). And a six and a five for good measure. Must have missed something on those two.

Invoice 8032533 for those who are interested in that type of thing.

Overall, I was pretty satisfied with the results. Wish the nines had been Nolan Ryans or Andre Dawson RCs, but at least I pulled 9s on a couple of "minor" HOFers. And I am, for the time being at least, the proud owner of a couple of "one of ones": Pete Mackanin & Ed Bane if I remember correctly.

gaspipe26

I've never seen vending that had great cards. Years ago Topps had cut card cases. They were series with a few hundred of each card consecutively. Each case containedovr 12000 cards. I remember them as a kid, but thats another story.

downgoesfrazier

Bob,
I've seen some scary-good '77 vending. I've also seen some scary-bad. The case numbers tend to help.
Michael,
email me if you want to sell any...even the 8's...

Wabittwax

Gaspipe, vending is hit and miss. My last 1980 vending case produced 8 Rickey Henderson PSA 9's out of 17 that were in the case. I was very happy with that. Those Rickeys paid for about 2/3's of the case price. Then I cleaned house on about 100 more PSA 9's and 10's of mostly HOFer's and some commons plus the other 8 Rickey's all got 8's with NQ. I would buy another if I could. That case came from Mark Murphy.