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Need some help with vintage common prices

I have set up a spread sheet to figure up a common's true value based on its population in 8 and 9. I am real happy with my results. The one problem I am having is determining the premium (if any) based on number of cards in a higher grade.

Example: 1969T Baseball

#59 Jay Johnstone 8 - 8's & 2 - 9's
#63 Jim Hickman 8 - 8's & 5 - 9's

Are Johnstone's 8's worth more than Hickman's 8's because Johnstone only has 2 - 9's compared to Hickman's 5 - 9's?

Does fewer cards in a higher grade make the lower grades more valuable? If so, how much more?

My thought is yes. But I have not been able to come up with a formula to determine just how much more.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Bert

Comments

  • The most important thing to include in your formula is the impulse decision that two people make when bidding on a low pop card. The cards are only as valuable as two "fools" make them out to be at a split second in time. If you do come up with a formula, the greater fool will take your formula and add one to it.
  • Well said. Low pop cards only take one sale to determine market value. There isn't really any rhyme or reason to high grade stuff, prices are set by the guy with the deep pockets (or lack there of) that decides to buy the card.
    Always looking for pre 1990 rookies and stars, pre 1970 baseball (all) and HOF game used.

    tradelist
  • gemintgemint Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Other factors such as the popularity of a the team or player of a particular low pop card will also influence pricing.

    Don't discount the 'timing is everything' saying. One example of this is when I listed a 1973 PSA 9 common (medium pop) first at $19.99, then at $14.99 and got no sales. Then on free listing day I listed it again at $12.99 and it ended up closing at $45! Timing is everything.
  • I am not using what the cards actually sell for.

    I am using the premise that the SMR for a common is the average price for the average common with an average population. I don't card what someone actually pays for the card. I am interested in what the card is worth based on its population in a certain grade.
  • I don't card what someone actually pays for the card. I am interested in what the card is worth

    Uhhh Beavis, I think he said butt.
  • smelly

    You must work for the media. Only using the part of my statement that you want!

    If you are going to quote me, DO IT COMPLETLY!


  • I am using the premise that the SMR for a common is the average price for the average common with an average population. I don't card what someone actually pays for the card. I am interested in what the card is worth based on its population in a certain grade.

    O.K. Beavis, let's find some chicks and try to score.

    That sounds cool Butthead, score! score!! score!!!

    image
  • acowaacowa Posts: 945 ✭✭
    SportsCardMan,

    You have me confused as well. When you say that you don't care what someone actually pays for the card, I don't understand how you can use the term "worth" without taking what someone actually pays into consideration.

    Also, your premise that SMR is the average price for an average common is flawed. SMR is at best a very poor predictor of the average price. The problem with any pricing model is that the baseball card market is terribly inefficient. Prices fluctuate all over the board. When you add that to the fact that all cards within a certain grade are not equal (there's no such thing as an average common in a grade class with all the high end and low end cards), there's no way to come up with a formula.




    Regards,



    Alan

  • acowa:

    I beg to differ and my numbers are proving it. In the 1969T set, the average common has 16 - 8's and 7 - 9's. The cards that have close to those populations are bringing pretty close to $18 & $40 SMR prices. There are always going to be exceptions based on team or whatever. I think you will agree that a Roy White 9 (only 1) is worth more than a Clay Carrol 9 (Population 73). I am just working on a formula to determine how much more it is worth. My formula right now says that the Roy White card is worth about $250 and the Clay Carrol about $5.

    Getting back to my original question. Is a PSA 8 card that has 10 - 8's and 3 - 9's worth more than a PSA 8 card that has 10 - 8's and 7 - 9's?

    I am just trying to come up with a value based on population only.

  • He,he, acowa dares to question the formula of cornholio? The cornholio formula will help me take over the world!! Do not try to reason with cornholio. Resistance will only hurt your bunghole.

    image
  • Butthead: Uh, Mr smartypants, Uh, we we're kinda needing some help placing a value on this?

    Beavis: Yeh,yeh, place a value on this.

    Butthead: That would be cool.

    Beavis: Yeh,yeh, put this on your spreadsheet.

    image
  • acowaacowa Posts: 945 ✭✭
    If I wanted to come up with a price on a 1969 card, I would email Bob Cacamese (gaspipe26), Dan Markel (dude), or Ron Sanders (Mitchondria). These guys have forgotten more about 1969's than I will ever hope to know.

    I have no idea how good your formula is. It all comes down to whether any of those guys would buy the card at that price. I would ask each of them at which price would you be a buyer of the card and at which price would you be a seller of the card to come up with some boundaries.

    Using your own example:

    Sales price of 1 Clay Carroll PSA 9 at almost 2 X your value



    Sales Price of another with 2 bidders over 2.5 times your value

    Based on these results, I feel that the Carroll PSA 9 card is probably worth around $13 wholesale and $20 retail.


    Regards,


    Alan
  • With SMR @ $40, they brought $9.50 & $13.50 respectively. With 73 PSA 9's out there, they still overpaid based on the population.

    I overpaid for my Carrol. I purchased it before I ran the numbers. I will not make that mistake again. Before you say that I may not win another auction based on my formula, I just won 4 of qualitycards auctions.

    Back to the question!

    Are 8's, where there are no 9's, more valuable than 8's where 9's exist?

  • VirtualizardVirtualizard Posts: 1,936 ✭✭


    << <i>Back to the question!

    Are 8's, where there are no 9's, more valuable than 8's where 9's exist? >>




    Yes. I'll use 1970 Topps Baseball for my examples:

    1. With 5-8s, 3-7s, and 0-9s, this card is a perfect example. SMR in PSA 8 is $30, it sold for $223.50! Granted, it is a checklist and will be rare to find in Mint condition

    2. This card has a nearly identical pop: 5-8s, 3-7s, and 1-9. SMR in PSA 8 is $10, it sold for $10.38.

    3. This card is similar as well: 6-8s, 0-7s, and 1-9. SMR in PSA 8 is $10, it sold for $22.05.

    If it were even remotely possible to come up with an equation to determine the "true value" of a particular card, SMR could not possibly be a part of it. It would be a very long equation with constantly changing variables, such as populations, #of collectors needing card, #of cards off the market (i.e. secured in a collector's set and not for sale or trade).

    By the way, the 2nd highest bidder on the PSA 8 card in example #1 already owns the pop 1 PSA 9 cards in examples 2 and 3. Let's see any equation that figures that one out. image

    JEB.
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