Changing grading standards @ PCGS -- deliberate or not?

FrattLaw

I'm not stating this as a fact, I'm not whining or complaining, I'm just making a point to open debate.

Does anyone here believe that the shifting sands of grading @ PCGS might be deliberate? Think about it, it only creates resubmissions. It creates a demand for certain slab types or colors. Now that most-all of the PQ coins are gone from the original holders as well as the 2nd & 3rd generation holders, is PCGS creating a new set of holders to crackout/cross over in the future. Are we about to see a change in the holder or insert. So that we can easily identify the holders with the "undergraded" coins in them?

There are just so many coins to be graded. At 70,000 per month @ PCGS and who knows how many @ NGC, ANACS, PCI, AGC, ect, crossovers and crackouts are not part of the "game," from a business standpoint for PCGS, they are required. So if crossovers and crackouts are required as a stream of revenue, how do they ensure that stream, change the grading standards.

How else will PCGS be able to charge a mulitple grading fee on the same coin?

And if you think it is deliberate, does it bother you? Are you a dealer, collector or investor?

I could see how the collector & investor might like it, but the dealer could have his business ruined by it.

Michael

kieferscoins

I don't think it is deliberate at all.

Cameron Kiefer

tjkillian

Maybe only a little. I agree with Mr. Hall in that he is not out to piss people off. The more people who are happy with his service, the more they will use it.

Tom

coinguy1

Michael,

Shame on you for asking such a silly group of questions - how could it be deliberate (or otherwise, for that matter) if it's not even happening?!!

Bear

Mark, Lots of thing in the world are not happening, even as we speak.

tradedollarnut

A copy of my post from a thread I just started:

I have just finished deleting my sets from the PCGS Set Registry. I won't be part of supporting what's going on.

PCGS can grade to whatever standard they like - that's their right. But to suddenly shift and throw the market into a turmoil is manipulation that I won't be a part of. And to bold face state it isn't happening when every knowledgeable grader can see it with their own eyes just takes the cake.

I am truly concerned that one day the grade on the trade dollars in the PCGS holders I own won't be respected by the marketplace. If standards change so much that the MS65's I paid PQ money for are seen as MS64's, I will lose all confidence in the brand. I suspect that I'm not alone.

What I want in a grading company is consistency. I want the grade to match the quality of the coin on the current grade scale and the value to match the price sheet. I don't want a coin undergraded to market by two points that costs me double sheet and then if something happens to me my heirs get 30 cents on the dollar. I don't want to have to play russian roulette and guess the price I should be paying to within +/- 50%. I want a company that will tell me like it is - and that what they say matches what I know to be true thru other sources.

If PCGS has an agenda, come out and say it. Tell us how those of us that have purchased coins previously will be protected. Tell us how the thousands of coins milling around the bourse floor and in auction that don't meet the standards anymore will be removed from the marketplace. Tell us the truth!

I am concerned enough about this to put many of my coins on the market. Legend will be selling off some of my rarities and other choice pieces. Part of the duty of PCGS (and any other reputable grading company) is to instill confidence in the marketplace. Sadly, I do not have that confidence any more.

Bear

I was just thinking, If PCGS gets a lot of people pissed off,

it could really lower the incidence of high blood pressure

in this country. Would kind of work like a prescription diuretic.

gsaguy

I said from day one that the standards had to change over time. If the standards NEVER changed, eventually all the coins that could be graded, would be graded, and if they were graded according to unchanging standards, there'd be no need for crackouts in an attempt at upgrades. Of course, I realize there are many millions of 'rare' coins out there, but eventually the stream of coins would diminish and PCGS would go out of business.

And when you think about it, the advent of NGC and others was the best thing that could ever have happened to PCGS. If PCGS was the only game in town, there'd not be any crossing from PCGS to NGC and back. You get the picture.

GSAGUY

P.S. I love my coins entombed in their beautiful Capital Plastics holders.

Edited to add useful words.

nwcs

It is an intriguing hypothesis. I would say, though, that it may have something to do with market forces. Perhaps as NGC has improved recently, it's forcing PCGS to respond with a different interpretation of their standards?

keets

hey bruce

don't you think your coins will be seen as what they are and not what holder they're in? the thought of you feeling your coins would be worth less holdered than cracked free flies in the face of much you've posted since i've been here. remember, the coin doesn't change, just the paid for opinion that is printed on the insert. while i admire your resolve regarding removal from the registry, i question the reasoning as a result of your postings here in the past.

i believe that whatever is going on at PCGS, real or perceived, will affect collectors negatively only if they haven't had there agenda set up correctly. what's yours? mine is to own some fine coins, holdered and raw that give me pleasure and don't break the bank, while affording at least a modest return on what i paid for them if/when i choose to sell.

al h.

RegistryCoin

It may be just the way one looks at it.

It seems that each grading company has their particular market niche(s), punctuated by a certain grading "style", not so much a certain grading "standard".

If: Each grading company has a market niche, and they find this a favorable way to "divide the pie", and the companies are trying hard to keep their niche, and
If: Their marketing approach and their markets support this niche, and
If: Their marketing supports their grading, and visa versa, and
If: Their marketing approach changes with the changing conditions of the market and the competition,
Then: A grading company's style, or "standard", will change, reflecting market and marketing changes, to remain competitive, to keep a strong hold on their niche.

While grading companies' marketing approaches continue to be adjusted, so will their grading style.

Other than perhaps, market position, this may be the only industry constant in the near future.

Perhaps, if grading companies' "styles" of grading were better understood, one may better get a "handle" on this dynamic market, may react better to sensed changes in standards, and may have more fun.

gmarguli

Does anyone here believe that the shifting sands of grading @ PCGS might be deliberate?

Of course. I never had any doubt about this. You'd be stupid to think otherwise.

Bear

Greg, People could agree or not agree and still be stupid or not stupid.

It all has to due with the changing market conditions of what constitutes stupid.

gmarguli

Bear, I've resubmitted stupid people multiple times and every time they come back as only "slightly stupid". Now, I know stupid people when I see them. I've been dealing with stupid people a long time. These current stupid people are of the exact same stupid quality as those labled stupid years ago. I've give up. I have no idea where the stupid line is anymore.

Bear

Greg ,LMAO , thank you. I needed a good belly laugh this AM. Bear

Barry

I believe the powers-that-be realized that years of gradeflation had gotten out of hand, and short of extending the scale to 75 or 80, a "correction" was necessary.