Red Indian Head cents

dan1ecu

I was wondering how to tell if a red Indian cent has been dipped or otherwise messed with. Copper is reactive enough that I would expect a nineteenth century copper cent to be toned. How do you suppose an Indian cent that is still red was stored for all of these years? It must have been kept away from oxygen. Does anyone know what to look for when picking out a red Indian Head cent?

Dan

coinguy1

Dan,

That is a tough group of questions to answer with generalities. Each date or era, has its own different/unique original color and luster. Copper doesn't often tone in the traditional sense, but instead, mellows to "red/brown" and eventually to "brown". There are numerous shades and color combinations of "red/brown" and "brown", however, and they can be quite beautiful.

Below is a PR65RB Lincoln Cent that we just sold - it was actually prettier and more vibrant than the images would indicate, but is an example of some of the red/brown (RB) shades you can find. Beneath it are a "RB" Proof Indian Cent and a brown (BN) Proof Indian Cent.

If a copper coin has been dipped, it will often display an unnatural light pinkish hue, that can be distinguished from original "mint red" color. When/if I can locate a good image of a dipped copper coin, I will post it.








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keithdagen

Dan,

If a copper coin has been dipped, a lot of times it will end up leaving a whitish color to the coin if the coin started off with brown as the predominant color. Dipped red copper produces purples and rainbow kinds of colors that don't look "right."

A good thing for all copper collectors (in my opinion), is to take some MS-70 and dip some copper that you get in change and then look at the results. When you see first-hand what the dip will do to the colors, it will make it easier to identify natural mellowing of color versus those that have been altered.

tjkillian

I've actually bought slabbed, dipped copper to compare. It is really tough for me to tell at all. The only thing I could possibly suggest is to try to view as many known dipped and undipped copper coins as you can to try to educate yourself.

Tom

Lakesammman

It is really tough.

As an example, I bought a tough variety, a 1871 shallow N coin that I think is 64R. It's been rejected by the services as being AT. I have one of the top IHC specialists who wants to buy it from me, knowing it's original. So, even though the above comments are good, it can be tough at times even for the experts.

In this instance, I think the knowledge and expertise of the subspecialist trumps that of the services. It must be tough to grade all comers all day and then make a snap judgement on copper originality. I'm not surprised it's been rejected.

By the way, nice pics Coinguy!!!

Commers edited - is that even a word??

Pushkin

I would agree with Coinguy1, Lakesammman, and others who have posted. It can be very difficult to tell an original from a "played with" IHC. Not just dipping, but other types of AT can produce some very stunning and difficult to determine colors. One suggestion for IHCs, try to look at as many Proof IHCs as possible. Many proofs have spectacular original toning, and viewing toned proofs will help give you a mental database of what (probably) original toned IHCs look like. Personally, I am always VERY suspicious of toned commercial strike IHCs. I own several that have beautiful, very eye appealing toning - but that would probably be body bag candidates from the grading services. In general, many AT'd IHCs just look awful, really ugly! Also, as already mentioned, BEWARE OF PINK!

Perhaps this post just contributes more to the confusion - but there is no easy answer to the question. One last thought, DON'T trust photographs unless you trust the photographer - manipulaiton of photo images involving toned IHCs is all to common.

Final analysis, you have to sometimes ask yourself, am I looking at/for a nice toned IHC or a nice toned IHC that will make it into plastic?


Good luck.