Full time dealers. I have a question.

mdwoods

When your income depends on selling coins, and upgrading coins to make money (which we all need to survive), do you really feel that your criticisms of PCGS can be unbiased?

coinguy1

mdwoods,

You make an excellent point. I often think that people who complain about grading are biased, have dollar signs in their eyes or don't know how to grade properly.

However, there are times when I hear/see what I feel to be perfectly legitimate complaints. For instance, a fellow board member recently showed me an uncertified Morgan Dollar that looked like a no brainer MS64 to me. PCGS no-graded it due to cleaning. It WAS NOT CLEANED and NGC graded it MS64 the first time they saw it. A PCGS grader who later examined the coin agreed that it had not been cleaned.

I could give far too many other such examples where there is no bias involved in being upset about PCGS's grading.

MadMonk

<< <i>However, there are times when I hear/see what I feel to be perfectly legitimate complaints. For instance, a fellow board member recently showed me an uncertified Morgan Dollar that looked like a no brainer MS64 to me. PCGS no-graded it due to cleaning. It WAS NOT CLEANED and NGC graded it MS64 the first time they saw it. A PCGS grader who later examined the coin agreed that it had not been cleaned.

I could give far too many other such examples where there is no bias involved in being upset about PCGS's grading. >>



It's beyond my comprehension that the "multiple" PCGS graders, and a finalizer, all saw the coin as cleaned. I wonder if consumers get what they supposedly pay for?

dbldie55

<< <i>It's beyond my comprehension that the "multiple" PCGS graders, and a finalizer, all saw the coin as cleaned. I wonder if consumers get what they supposedly pay for? >>



What makes you think more than one grader saw it the first time?

MadMonk

I was under the impression that it was consensus grading. Am I wrong?

mdwoods

Thanks Mark, I certainly respect your opinion and believe what you have said. I agree they (PCGS) do make mistakes. Sometimes big ones. Most of my experiences with PCGS have been positive. When I collected Lincolns, I saw many suspicioulsy colored coins in slabs from every company except PCGS. I base a lot of my opinion of PCGS on those experiences. And while PCGS slabs dipped silver coins, like everyone else, they usually don't have that over dipped look that I have also seen in other slabs. I guess I really can't comment on their recent inconsistency since I am not at all the shows submitting coins and trying for upgrades. It just seems funny that so many dealers gripe about PCGS's inconsistency, when they are relying on just that so called inconsistency, when they try for an upgrade.

coinguy1

mdwoods, I agree, completely, with your last post. In fact, I had posted this comment to a thread over the weekend:


"Actually, the dealers who make their livings via the crackout game, rely, to a great extent, on the INCONSISTENCY of the grading services. If the same coins were graded the same each time, the crackout business would be a thing of the past and those dealers would need to make money by other means."

Zerbe

"Actually, the dealers who make their livings via the crackout game, rely, to a great extent, on the INCONSISTENCY of the grading services. If the same coins were graded the same each time, the crackout business would be a thing of the past and those dealers would need to make money by other means."

The above statement says so much ! I totally agree !

prooflike

Maybe there should be some accountability with PCGS like including who the grader was, both indicated on slabs and body bags.

Even though grading is an opinion, maybe if a grader has too many "faulty" opinions, that person just shouldn't grade anymore.

(Note: I fully realize that for the most part, in these days, it is hard to find good help.)

There are two views here,

(1) people pay money for an "expert" opinion, not an opinion which would relieve PCGS of any future liability, but an expert opinion. We have heard stories of coins getting bagged straight out of mint sets, sure-thing 65s graded as 64s, etc... May it be possible that PCGS graders are not grading as experts, but rather, grade for the profitability of the company? Furthermore, this would demonstrate that PCGS graders grade for volume(what is it, 5 seonds a coin?) and corporate liability rather than giving an impartial expert opinion.

It seems that by PCGS' claimed policy that every coin is seen by multiple graders, which if true, indicates that the consumers shouldn't gripe... what about the incident above, the bagged cleaned coined that wasn't cleaned? How did that get through multiple PCGS graders?
It hardly is an isolated incident... Maybe this is one Mr. Hall should handle?


(2) The other view, of course, is don't play the PCGS game and submit to NGC and ANACS.

Well, that is about all I want to babble for now...

danglen

I only submit to NGC and ANACS. I may lose a bit on the premium accorded to some PCGS graded coins, but I probably save a lot more than I lose in BB fees that I would be throwing down the drain at PCGS.