Why PCGS grading should be stricter.
DesertLizard
Posts: 702 ✭
YES!
Stricter grading is good for the hobby. The last few years gimme grades have been handed out like Halloween candy. Who gets hurt? Collectors!
I am sick of seeing box after box of over graded slabs. Coins get topped out then they get crossed for one last attempt. It WAS a gravy train for many crackout dealers [I know one personally who submitted over 1000/week on average], why sell retail when you can crackout in the mornign and play golf all afternoon!
Series after series are full of overgraded garbage coins. You saw them on ebay at first and now at major auctions you see the same garbage.
I will pick on Flying Eagle cents for example. Maybe half of the 1858 MS65s don't belong in a 65 holder. That game in that series has screwed up the 64 pops AND the 65 pops something awful. I place the blame squarely on the crackout artists.
How many times do we read about board members squawking about a coin which is overgraded? How many times do we thumb our noses at an alleged MS65 that looks dull or borderline. Wel well well, it got there because some kept pushing the envelope for higher and higher grades.
I say PCGS has a reputation to protect. If they go imagine what will happen to our PCGS slabs? Values would head south in a hurry. I am sick of hearing people complain about the grading as if it were some specific science. Too many are concerned about the freaking slab number than the coin. The coin looks like S**T but it's in a MS66 holder! Well golly gee, that's great, you'll get $10k more at that level.
I say protect the hobby, strict grading, no more gimme grades!
Stricter grading is good for the hobby. The last few years gimme grades have been handed out like Halloween candy. Who gets hurt? Collectors!
I am sick of seeing box after box of over graded slabs. Coins get topped out then they get crossed for one last attempt. It WAS a gravy train for many crackout dealers [I know one personally who submitted over 1000/week on average], why sell retail when you can crackout in the mornign and play golf all afternoon!
Series after series are full of overgraded garbage coins. You saw them on ebay at first and now at major auctions you see the same garbage.
I will pick on Flying Eagle cents for example. Maybe half of the 1858 MS65s don't belong in a 65 holder. That game in that series has screwed up the 64 pops AND the 65 pops something awful. I place the blame squarely on the crackout artists.
How many times do we read about board members squawking about a coin which is overgraded? How many times do we thumb our noses at an alleged MS65 that looks dull or borderline. Wel well well, it got there because some kept pushing the envelope for higher and higher grades.
I say PCGS has a reputation to protect. If they go imagine what will happen to our PCGS slabs? Values would head south in a hurry. I am sick of hearing people complain about the grading as if it were some specific science. Too many are concerned about the freaking slab number than the coin. The coin looks like S**T but it's in a MS66 holder! Well golly gee, that's great, you'll get $10k more at that level.
I say protect the hobby, strict grading, no more gimme grades!
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Comments
<< <i>I am sick of seeing box after box of over graded slabs >>
Overgraded according to who? You? Me? Bozo the Clown? What you call a 65 I might call a 64 and vice versa. That is just semantics. What matters is CONSISTANCY.
I just wish PCGS would stick to the standards in their grading guide but I've seen countless examples where they haven't....another reason to learn to grade yourself.
jom
Grading is not a science. It's art. What many are asking for is impossible. You have a human element in the process and that will lead to some imperfections. If coins were graded by a machine you could then demand consistent grading.
I find it hilarious that the very people who seek to exploit the human element of grading feel violated when the game goes against them. They tuck their PCGS slab box under their arm and storm off sulking swearing off the evil PCGS empire.
They always come back though because it is VERY profitable when they win!
As for overgraded coins, I suggest you sit with an experienced wholesale buyer [not a dealer] or a former grader [like coinguy1] and they will flip through a slab box in less than 2 minutes and be able to give a good feel for what was over/under graded. You see these guys pouring over the slabs at every lot preview and they don't need to study the coin for too long.
My partner / buyer has shown me what to look for in 2 series I collect actively and I can now spot things I could not before. I can assure you the experienced guys out there who make this their living can spot the same things I do.
People who own coins have too much emotion tied up in pieces to be objective. They tend to be almost childlike when they are told a coin is over graded and they then seek out other opinions to reaffirm their original feelings. When they can't sell the coin for the grade assigned they feel the final violation.
I say buy what you like and leave the crackout game to the pros. Work with someone who knows their stuff or invest a year or more to learn a series and look at lots of coins in that series to develop a feel for what is accurate.
learn a series and look at lots of coins in that series to develop a feel for what is accurate."
Great advice.
I think the crack out guys have great memories for their wins and bad memories for their losses.
If crack out guys consistently made a lot of money, people would see that and more people would play the game which means
competition for PQ coins which means prices rise and then the margin begins to evaporate. It's called the free market system.
Unusually high profits rarely last long.....competition almost always lowers profits to a marginal rate.
The last time I uploaded it I put my handle on it.
It wsa time for a change of icon, like changing wives or girlfriends!
Look for a new one in a day or so, I see too many have this one already.
BTW, I didn't mean to imply we were going to get a consistant standard EVER but that is what would be needed...not being stricter. Of course, if they got stricter then stayed that way, I'm all for it. But as far as how collectors view the services I agree. Read what I just posted over in the thread Legend started about "PCGS's attitude". That pretty much sums up my feelings on this...
jom
enjoy the coins
K S
I think p.c.g.s. performs a valuable service and i was sticking up for p.c.g.s. when many dealers in my area where bad mouthing David back in the mid 80's.
I do think it is reasonable to ask for grading consistency and appearetly there has been loosening and tightening over the last 17 years. My number one criteria for liking a coin is and always has been eye appeal and 2nd is fair value. If the grading services ever went under would you still be happy to own the coins you have?, or would you panic sell your coins like people selling stocks after october of 29 ?
If some color fanatic ever wants to pay me 20 x bid for a truely pretty rare coin it's his, but thats not why i baught them. I like owning my coins for the sake of owning them and enjoying them and fatman was right about me i like shiney round hunks of metal with pretty colors.
I think that is a question that EVERY collector should ask themselves, if PCGS and NGC went under today and the Registries disappeared forever would you still be happy with your coins and would they retain most of their value??? It seems that more and more so called collectors are in reality investors who think they can make good money collecting coins are more interested in what their coins are worth from day to day or are constantly worrying about if their coins are overgraded or undergraded and what slab they are in. When I first started collecting 19 years ago I did it for the fun and enjoyment I received from not only looking at my coins but learning about them, how they were struck, the way life was back when they were in circulation and to this day I still enjoy them in that manner. From many of the threads that have been posted in the last few month it seems many people are not enjoying this hobby very much because they are focusing to much on the value/return they might get on their coins which changes things from a hobby to an investment. I am by no means rich (probably in the bottom 25% when it comes to coin money available) but I never spend money on coins that I cannot afford to lose, do I hope to get some or most of my money back on coins when I sell them? Of course but I also get A LOT of value from my coins just by owning them and having the pleasure of looking at them and holding them (at least the raw coins). There seems to be a bad trend right now where many new collectors don't understand that this is a HOBBY and if you don't truly enjoy collecting for the love of coins then you should probably find a new hobby or you will just end up with a lot of grief.